In the final episode of the 2020 calendar year, Chris and Tim kick back and review the year. They talk about the highs and lows of their first year as hosts of Utah in the Weeds.
What they most appreciate about the podcast is its conversational nature. [01:57] Tim and Chris get to bring on guests from throughout the Medical Cannabis industry and just talk shop. Utah in the Weeds’ conversational tone makes it easily relatable to listeners yet still very informative.
Tim mentioned how doing the podcast has really benefited him personally. [02:56] He’s learned a lot by talking to cannabis movers and shakers. He has also been able to humanize those people rather than just thinking of them as political figures. Tim has even been able to use the newly acquired knowledge to help other QMPs.
Early on, Chris and Tim hosted the very first person to legally purchase Medical Marijuana in Utah. [05:57] They also had the first card-carrying patient on their show. Utah in the Weeds has truly been at the forefront of getting information out to patients and providers alike.
Throughout the podcast, Tim and Chris reminisce about the many patients they’ve talked to. Most are regular men and women you would meet on the street. A lot of them are LDS, which is important in the sense that the Church has come out in favor of Medical Cannabis when used appropriately and according to the law. [07:37]
Tim and Chris rounded out the podcast talking about various products, how these are prescribed, and everything from available stock to pricing. [16:08] They generally agreed that the number of card-carrying patients will eclipse 100,000 in 2021.
The podcast concluded with a brief discussion on utahmarijuana.org. [32:26] They have already opened a couple of pharmacies and are working on more. Chris provided a podcast phone number that patients can call with specific questions to be answered in upcoming podcasts.
Chris: So this is 39.
Tim: Welcome to episode 39. 38B.
Chris: Yeah, we’re going to do a proper introduction here. We’re going to welcome everybody out today to episode 39 of Utah in the Weeds. This is the final episode of 2020, Tim.
Tim: Yeah, I’m excited about that. We need to wrap this year up.
Chris: You’re excited that 2020’s over, it’s the last episode? What are you excited about?
Tim: Yes. All of the above. I mean, I’m excited about talking to you and really kind of going through a little bit of 2020, recap a few of our favorite episodes, talk about what’s happened in the cannabis space in Utah 2020, preview maybe a little bit of what’s going to happen in 2021, but this has been an epic year, essentially for everybody, right?
Chris: Well, especially trying to keep a podcast together when you and I didn’t even really know each other that well when this whole thing started.
Tim: No, we didn’t know each other hardly at all.
Chris: So to try to keep it together, it’s been… the feedback from the community, from listeners, from your patients, from the patients that we’ve had on here has been ridiculously awesome.
Tim: I think we’ve done pretty good. Like you said, we didn’t know each other at all a year ago. We have our first episode in February. I was talking to somebody today about our first episode. I did not go back and listen to our first episode.
Chris: We should go back and listen.
Tim: I’m hopeful we’ve gotten a little bit better.
Chris: Yeah. People have pointed that out actually.
Chris: Actually I think it was Josh last week on episode 38 when we talked to him down at Deseret Wellness. He was saying, you and I, we’ve come together, we’ve figured out kind of how this goes. You and I are figuring out a rhythm, how to talk.
Tim: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And I think that the quality of the discussions is really good. What I like about this podcast for me now is this is like conversational cannabis, right?
Tim: Because in clinic with patients, there’s a certain feel to the conversation, this patient-provider relationship. An education video that I do, there’s a different relationship, and there’s this… not saying it’s a fake persona, but it’s not as conversational as this, you and I talking together, talking to people, just kind of shooting the shit, figuring out what’s going on in the cannabis space. So that’s what I’ve really enjoyed about this podcast, and it was really important to me to keep it going despite the COVID.
Chris: What was some of the things… I mean, I guess you kind of just said some of the benefits of doing this over this last year of 2020 for you, but by doing this, what has been some rewards, or unexpected rewards even?
Tim: Definitely, and we talked about this last time down in Provo, after we had finished recording, the fact that we kind of get access to these people in the know, that we were able to have a conversation back early in the cannabis legalization in Utah with Rich Oborn, and we were able to have a conversation with Desiree Hennessy from Utah Patients. That type of access has been… well, I mean, there’s countless… thinking about all these people we’ve talked to, and getting to meet them and learn about their perspective on what’s going on in the cannabis space, that’s been the biggest reward.
Chris: Humanizing them a little bit too has been nice too really, because I think a lot of times we just look at them as these political figures, up on Capitol Hill.
Tim: Up on The Hill and working for the state, or there are pharmacists behind the scenes in this scary cannabis space, right?
Tim: So do you feel like you’ve gotten… as a provider with utahmarijuana.org, I’ve really benefited from that knowledge, and it’s translated into me being able to help different QMPs or patients or different people. As somebody who doesn’t… your full-time gig isn’t in the cannabis space.
Chris: I wish, right?
Tim: Right? I mean, it’s kind of becoming that way.
Chris: Yeah, yeah, with this podcast maybe someday.
Tim: What’s been the benefit for you?
Chris: Well, honestly, a lot of similar things, like you mentioned, I mean, it’s just been nice going into Beehive Farmacy, and that we chatted with Bijan from the pharmacy there, and now I can say, “Hey, what’s up, man?” He knows who I am. I’m not just some person lost in the sea of crowd of everybody else, all 33,000 cannabis users or cardholders in the state of Utah. So that’s been nice. I mean, just really getting to be a little more involved in the industry, getting to see some of these grow operations that I’ve seen, that I would have never had an opportunity to see if I was just not doing the podcast. So that’s been worth it right there for me.
Tim: Yeah, that’s cool. I think that getting that insight from your perspective for listeners, hopefully has been really helpful. That’s why I think we make a pretty good team on the podcast.
Tim: You get these two different perspectives.
Chris: You’re the QMP and I’m just the patient.
Tim: Just the QMP. You’re the important piece of the puzzle. 33,000-
Chris: Is that how many there are now?
Tim: Yeah, there are more than that I think, legal cannabis users in Utah, and I’ve kind of lost track over the past couple of months because the number’s gotten so big. But literally there were no cannabis patients in Utah last year. No cannabis cardholders last year. There were a few letter holders, but all of those people are cardholders now. The Department of Health has done a lot of work this year.
Chris: And then, remember David Sutherland who we had on episode two, wasn’t he-
Tim: Oh, yeah.
Chris: Was he the first cardholder?
Tim: Yeah, he’s card number one.
Chris: Card number one. But then we had Mario, he was the first customer or something like that, right?
Tim: Yes, the first person to purchase legal cannabis in Utah was Mario. And that was a fun interview too. And I’ve talked to him quite a few more times because he was working up at the True North pharmacy, Modern Earth.
Chris: It’s kind of been fun to see these people that we connect with online or through the podcast, seeing them out to these local pharmacies.
Tim: Yes. I saw the guy we interviewed at Wholesome-
Tim: And I see Mindy Madeo–
Chris: Yeah, Mindy, yeah.
Tim: I see her once in a while up there in Bountiful, and we’ve associated with these people definitely more than once. There’s a small community of people that are now… we communicate more and bounce ideas off of each other. We talk about the new legislation that’s coming out. But we’ve had a lot of really good interviews. The patient interviews we’ve had, other than David, were excellent too.
Chris: Which one off the top of your head, did any of them stick out?
Tim: The guy with the voices.
Chris: The voices?
Tim: Remember that guy? Long-haired, LDS guy. He’s a plumber.
Chris: Oh, yes.
Tim: I cannot think of his name.
Chris: Zac. Was it Zac?
Chris: Great guy. I love listening to how he was mixing up all the different hemp strains. Is that what you call them, hemp strains I guess?
Tim: Yeah. And then the colitis, Ryan Thomas.
Tim: Another great interview. Just such good perspectives on the Mormon community and cannabis, and how there are pockets of openness, I guess.
Chris: So we’re a Utah podcast. We’ve had some Mormons on the podcast. They say they’re strict Mormons. I mean, the Mormon church is pretty cool with that right?
Tim: I suspect we’ve had a lot of Mormons on the podcast.
Chris: Well, yeah.
Tim: But we didn’t ask.
Chris: Well, true, true. They’re okay with it, right, as long as it’s used medicinally?
Tim: Yeah. The church officially came out and is in support of medical cannabis, is not in support of inhaled medical cannabis. There are something differing opinions about medical cannabis in the church population.
Tim: The church is officially for medical cannabis when used appropriately and not raw cannabis flower inhaled. I think there are some patients who are LDS who use flower and who are okay with that, and they’ve made their own choices. But there’s always that with any, I think, organized religion, there’s always the word from the church and the rule, and then there’s always a little bit of fringe.
Chris: I don’t think it should be any different though than getting any other prescription. I can go down to CVS and get a prescription. It shouldn’t be any different with the Mormon church, right?
Chris: If I got an Adderall prescription or any pain pills or anything.
Tim: Right, that should be okay.
Chris: It’s the same thing really.
Tim: And we’ve had the discussion with a lot of LDS patients frankly about that, and about how their family is really supportive. Come to find out, they were scared to talk to people, and then well, wait, Aunt Mabel, she’s doing it too. What other interviews really stood out to you over this year?
Chris: I’m pulling them up here actually. You know, honestly, my favorite ones were going out and visiting Shawn at both grow locations. The one he was at in Murray, the first one in Murray, and then when we got to go out to Payson. Heck of a drive down there, but I think those ones really stuck out for me because that was kind of always what I loved about podcasting. One of the ideas when I first even got into this whole thing was I want to go see them in their domain.
Tim: Yeah, in the element.
Chris: In their element.
Tim: Well, Mike Rodriguez, the same thing, when we went to this different experience, but really fun to go there, tour his place, and yeah, those were really fun podcasts.
Chris: You talk about payment, right, where, “Oh, is it worth doing the podcast?” Experiencing that is worth it, man. I would have never got to see Mike’s hemp farm probably.
Tim: Yeah, that’s true.
Chris: I probably would have never connected with, maybe through Instagram.
Tim: Right, but you wouldn’t have even known where it was.
Chris: So those are probably some of my favorite ones. I’m looking through here. 38 episodes. We had Jack, he was a 19-year-old. That was a fun one too.
Tim: Oh, yeah, that made me a little nervous.
Tim: If anybody goes back and listens to that, you’ll hear in my voice a little nervousness because I was concerned that Jack was illegal, and I went right from the recording to Rich Oborn, and I cornered Rich and talked to him and said, “Hey, we need…” In fact, I had talked to an attorney on the way to Rich’s house, should we release the episode or not, and come to find out, Jack’s a legal cannabis user under 21, but again, good opportunity to learn a thing or two, even for me who a lot of people consider the expert in the industry, and I should know all the rules. But that episode was fun. Yeah, looking back, that’s crazy.
Chris: You know what I think the craziest thing to me about this whole year, 2020, though is how cannabis marijuana has been frowned upon forever, really. All the 1900s pretty much, right? All of a sudden in 2020, it was considered an essential business.
Chris: I mean, really in all states.
Tim: That’s right. You’ve had dispensaries and pharmacies open in every state. Yeah, they consider it totally against the law 20 years ago, wouldn’t have even have crossed anybody’s mind.
Chris: I mean, you got a little nug in your pocket, you’d probably be thrown in jail.
Tim: Yeah, thrown in jail. And now, 2020, global pandemic, let’s keep the pharmacies and dispensaries open. We’re going to need those.
Chris: What do you think of that?
Tim: I mean, I guess it just makes sense to me now. I feel like this brings up another whole kind of topic. I feel like I am neck deep in cannabis all the time. My entire life right now is marijuana, cannabis, talking about it, podcasting about it, videoing about it, teaching people about it, learning about it. I live in this world that is just all cannabis all the time. I’m constantly having to remind myself that the rest of the world is not quite where I’m at. It’s not quite as normal for everybody else to just be walking down the street with flower and vaporizers and all of this going on in your mind and stuff.
Tim: I guess back to your question or point about what do we think about cannabis, and where we’re at now in this essential business, these dispensaries being essential businesses. To me, that’s just, “Of course they are.”
Tim: Because that’s just the paradigm I live in. You kind of have both sides. You have the I am Salt Lake side, which really got into the local economy and the local business, you saw that more than I did.
Chris: Saw the local business…
Tim: Yeah, the local restaurants hurting.
Chris: Oh, sure. Yeah, with COVID?
Chris: Yeah, because of everything shutting down, yeah.
Tim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: The local pharmacies, they’re doing all right though because people have got to stay medicated. Is that kind of what you’re talking about?
Tim: Yeah, I’m talking about it’s a dichotomy. It’s really almost polar opposites.
Tim: You’ve had this cannabis industry in Utah that has thrived all year.
Chris: Oh, sure, sure, sure. They’re hyping it up. They’re talking about it. They’re saying, “This is us.” And then when I’m interviewing for people in the local small businesses, like this last week we had the Cluck Truck food truck, local food truck, and they’re just talking about, “Hey, there’s not as many events going on. We can’t get out there,” and so they’re struggling, so you almost get depressed after talking with some of those.
Tim: Yeah, but you talk to Narith, when you talk to Bijan…
Chris: Yeah, I’m excited about that, man. I’m just like, “Yeah.”
Tim: And these guys are like, “We can’t grow enough flower. We can’t stock the flower. We can’t stock the products. It’s just going off the shelves.” It’s so crazy to be in both worlds this year.
Chris: I also think Salt-Baked City, we need to make sure that everybody takes advantage of that resource because…
Tim: Yeah, Cole does a really good job.
Chris: I was stoked on talking with him on the podcast too to find out a little bit about that, because I’d really been enjoying his site with… I mean, he was breaking down terpenes and he was breaking down…
Tim: Yes, there’s a couple of us… I feel like you and I with the podcast, me with utahmarijuana.org, and Cole with Salt-Baked City, we’re trying to take information and disseminate information about the cannabis, like what’s going on in Utah for everyone in a pretty legitimate way. I think he does it in a really legitimate way too. It’s not over-the-top bong rips and…
Chris: I was going to mention, so he did an article here, $14 million is what Utah from March until the end of April, so almost the entire year there, because obviously there’s some months we lost… so $14 million in sales. I don’t know if you’ve heard these numbers at all.
Tim: No, I haven’t.
Chris: I wanted to see if there was a graph on here. There was a graph I saw online showing the amount of each cultivator group, so Dragonfly, how much… They grew the most obviously in 2020. A lot of these other pharmacies that have grow… what’s the correct term that you’ve used if you have a grow license, just a grow license.
Tim: Yeah, a grow license. I mean, there are eight grow licenses in the state of Utah, and I know of four that grow… five. I believe Wholesome is starting to grow now. Zion, of course, we’ve purchased flower from Zion. They have products. Tryke, they were big. They’ve produced a lot of flower.
Chris: I think they were one of the next biggest ones that grew.
Tim: Right. And Dragonfly. Then there’s Harvest. Is Harvest… and then there’s these small brands like Sugar House Selects, which is really part of Zion. And Harvest, which I think is part of another grow license type. That’s when it starts getting a little fuzzy. 2021, Chris, we need to have more growers and processors on the podcast, and break that part down.
Chris: You know what we should make here is put a map up, even at one of your offices, it could be fun to show the main growers, like Tryke for example, and then who they grow for, or like how Zion grows for Sugar House.
Chris: And kind of break it down and show little graph or something, kind of just show who everybody’s coming out of. What were some of your favorite strains this year? You guys sample a few, I’m sure. Or not sample, I mean…
Tim: Definitely, I think Fatso’s just the favorite, you know?
Tim: It’s so strong, and really, really good for pain, but also, man, a dose of insight. If you’re ever looking for a dose of insight, Fatso is a reasonable strain just because it’s so strong on the head change. And then I talk to patients all the time. I mean, I know Sundae Driver’s just been a nice, even-keel strain.
Chris: It’s not a bad one.
Tim: Not a bad one. Maxine, another one that was very good for what I needed. And Pink Starburst Petrol-
Chris: I haven’t had a chance to try that one out yet.
Tim: Yeah, they had just a small run of it. So those are it. How about you?
Chris: Well, I was going to mention the Fatso. I was only able to pick up like an eighth one time at Beehive, so hopefully I’ll be able to get in on some of that the next time that they do that. But the Garanimals, I don’t know if you’ve tried that one.
Chris: That one’s been nice. That one’s really nice. I’m more of an Indica person, so anything with a higher Indica. My mind is blank on that. I should have had this more prepared. There was a Zkittlez one. I don’t know how to pronounce… that I tried one time. I tried ample times. That’s been really nice. I mean, there’s a lot, but I would have to say Fatso and the Garanimals probably were the top for me.
Tim: It’ll be nice when you have a little more consistency and you can say, “Well, my go-to is this.”
Tim: Right, “My go-to is this strain,” and it’s always available at the pharmacy. It’s always available. That’s been a problem all year.
Chris: Well, because you never get the same thing, right?
Chris: Like you can never get the same stuff, the same… Night Terror was another good one that I really enjoyed by Tryke. The Night Terror by Tryke, get a good night’s sleep on that one.
Tim: Yeah, and wouldn’t it be nice to have that in the jar all the time and not have to worry about… and I think that that’s… hopefully in 2021, it might take another year though after that before there’s enough consistency in the market, because remember in the very beginning, there was no flower, for like a month. Dragonfly had a little bit and they sold out first day, and then they didn’t have any for a while. And now, it seems like you can always find some type of flower.
Chris: Yes and no. This actually just happened yesterday. Let me give you a little story here. I was searching for some Indica. I noticed that Wholesome got some Indica in. I went in there, found out they sold out in two hours.
Tim: Oh, wow.
Chris: You know what I mean? Because that was the only Indica. Everything else has been Sativa or hybrid through Utah, right?
Chris: So it’s kind of like whoever is releasing Indica right now is just going to cash in probably because it doesn’t even matter who’s putting it out there if it’s Indica. So they sold out in two hours. So you got to keep an eye on their website. You got to keep an eye and put it on hold.
Tim: You know the other thing we learned, and Blake Smith brought this to my attention last week. That was that they told the growers there was going to be about 6,000 patients the first year in 2020. It’s my understanding now that the Department of Agriculture, another good episode we should look for with the Department of Agriculture, but they told the growers, “Hey, build up to… build for 6,000 patients, or at the most, 16,000 patients.”
Chris: Which I think they’re growing for, and that’s about all they can supply.
Tim: Right, and that’s about whether they can supply right now. So are they ahead of where they were supposed to be or behind? Of course they’re behind for what’s reality. Are they ahead for COVID? I don’t know. Maybe they grew more than they pushed and pushed, but regardless, just interesting that 2020 brought such a huge demand in product, very low supply and sporadic supply. And then there’s all these other normal factors that were into play too, how many patients were supposed to be, and how many patients ended up being legal. I think the program has been hugely successful.
Chris: By the end of 2021, I predict over 100,000 patients.
Tim: That’s more than 3% of the Utah population.
Chris: You were mentioning that, yeah. I mean, if we’re almost to 40 right now.
Tim: Yeah, you figure in Oklahoma they had 70,000 the first year. I guess we might be on track for that type of momentum. It’d be interested to see what 2021 brings. There’s that new legislation that they’re trying to pass, and we’ve talked about that a little bit, the expansion of potentially allowing non-QMP medical providers the ability to write for up to 15 providers. Some pretty good push back. There was a new idea floated today about having all medical providers in Utah do education about cannabis. I would support that. Basically make us all do some type of cannabis education.
Chris: I love it.
Tim: We didn’t get any in school. Wouldn’t you approve of that? You’re a primary care provider. It would be nice if they were mandated.
Chris: How would you require that though?
Tim: So we all have to renew our license every year, and we all have to renew our controlled substance education, so Utah requires me-
Chris: So all doctors.
Tim: All doctors, PAs, nurse practitioners, everybody who prescribes controlled substances in Utah, you have to do a controlled substance education. It’s basically a way for us to learn to not prescribe narcotics.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: That’s the whole point.
Chris: So they could even just throw on, “Hey, watch this four-hour video on cannabis.”
Tim: Yup. Boom, an extra two hours.
Chris: Two hours, whatever.
Tim: Everybody is required. Here’s the Utah law, here’s some basics about the pros and cons of cannabis, two hours. Everybody’s required to do it. I think that is the beginning. That could be the beginning of the normalization in medicine.
Chris: Well, yeah, absolutely. And especially once they start doing testing and once they can start doing that, and then open it up to insurance companies.
Tim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: It’s going to happen. 2021, we have a lot of stuff, both in Utah and in the United States, a lot of stuff’s going to happen.
Tim: Yeah, the MORE Act passed this year.
Chris: Well, in the House. Then there was another one I haven’t fully researched.
Tim: Yeah, I was just reading a little bit about it, that the Senate has passed a research bill that will allow some research to be done on cannabinoids. That needs to happen too, because the research, although there’s plenty, we’ve talked a lot about this on the podcast. There’s not good research on medical dosing for cannabis. A lot of the research that’s been done is on guys who smoke five joints a day, and that’s just not the average patient.
Chris: What do you think the average person smokes, uses, vapes? What do you think an average patient goes through?
Tim: Are we talking about… I think there’s two types of patients. There’s a million types of patients. Don’t take offense to this anybody, but I think if you were to broadly categorize, you have patients that are really just using it medicinally. Then you have patients that are using it medicinally and what you would call adult use as well. I think there’s a pretty big difference in use in those two populations, because a patient is probably not going to require more than 50 milligrams per day of THC.
Chris: You think so?
Tim: Yeah, I think it’s strong.
Chris: 50 milligrams?
Tim: Yeah. I don’t think people need… I think most of the time 10 to 20 milligrams dose two or three times a day is probably a pretty good dose for most people.
Chris: Now are these AIDS patients, cancer patients, or are these just people with a little bit of pain in the…
Tim: I’m just talking about the big percentage of patients.
Chris: Sure, sure.
Tim: This is definitely not everybody.
Tim: Maybe it would just be the pain patients, and it would just be the people who just use it medically. The Sutherlands of the world. He’s a five milligram in the morning. Sorry if I’m really repeating his podcast, but he’s a five milligram in the morning. Okay, so let’s take a generic patient.
Tim: Five milligrams in the morning, five, 10 milligrams in the afternoon, 10, 20 milligrams at night. People can stay on that type of dosing for a long time. But then you have this other really broad category of people who use it medicinally and a little bit recreationally, and I think the average is probably half an ounce a month.
Chris: You think in just a month, a half an ounce in a month? I’m just curious. The point I’m trying to get at here is I feel bad for some of these patients that need to go through a lot because of these prices in Utah, but what’s interesting is I actually just read an article… Pennsylvania’s even higher than Utah.
Tim: Oh, as far as cost.
Chris: As far as cost. They’re the most expensive, I guess, right now.
Tim: Like $80 an eighth?
Chris: About that, yeah.
Tim: Well, and then we talked to Jeremy from Deseret Wellness who talked about… well, if you took an… or Bijan said the same thing, “If you took an ounce of flower now or if you took an eighth here, $60, with a $3 transaction charge, and you added 21% sales tax on it,” which if it was recreational, Utah state would charge sales tax, “then all of a sudden, now you’re $70, 80 an eighth.”
Tim: And so the prices get worse if it goes recreational. They don’t get better. That’s the argument.
Chris: Well, and I think everybody compares everything to Colorado, and Colorado’s been around since 2014 they went recreational, so yeah, you can get an ounce for under 200 bucks there, right?
Tim: Yeah, and if you want to really to Oregon, you can get an ounce, same ounce for 180.
Chris: But yeah, it is what it is, I guess… how do you even answer that? I think if I was a patient that I was going through that much, I would probably live in a state… I can’t afford to live in Utah.
Tim: We have this conversation in clinic once in a while. A patient comes in and they require three ounces of flower a month. Well, how do they afford that?
Chris: Well, that’s what I’m wondering.
Tim: And so you don’t want them to divert the product and be buying it for their friends, but at the same time, can they really afford that amount?
Chris: Tell me, is anybody really buying that much flower?
Tim: I don’t know. That’s a good question for the pharmacies.
Chris: I know we can’t get too deep into that because of HIPAA, but I’d be curious what some of the…
Tim: Well, I know patients are running up against the state max. I guarantee it.
Chris: What’s the state max here?
Tim: Four ounces of flower-
Chris: A month.
Tim: And 20 grams of THC concentrate. That’s 20 1-gram cartridges a month.
Chris: You think people are going up against that?
Tim: No, I guarantee they’re going up against it, because we have patients who use the state max every month. Every month. Not in concentrates.
Chris: How are they paying for it? That’s what I want to know.
Tim: I don’t know. I don’t ask because if they need it, they need it.
Chris: How do you afford this?
Tim: If they’re selling it to their brother, then that’s against a lot of laws.
Chris: Well, let’s hope people aren’t doing that.
Tim: Yeah. I mean, we can’t spend too much time on that, but…
Chris: Okay, here’s a question: do doctors sit around and think about that, like, “Oh, if I prescribe this guy this Adderall, is he going to be selling it to his buddies?”
Tim: Oh, that for sure.
Chris: Do they really think that?
Chris: Okay, because I was wondering, I was trying to compare it, you know?
Tim: Yes. Controlled substance database. This is another issue. So if you need Adderall and I’m going to prescribe Adderall, then I’ll look you up in the controlled substance database, make sure 1) you’re not getting Adderall from somebody else before I prescribe it to you, and then, yeah, you want to be sure that the dosing is accurate and you don’t want to overdose. You want to be very careful with that. So cannabis is different because people choose their own dose.
Tim: So with Adderall, it’s 10 milligrams twice a day or 10 milligrams once a day. You get 30 pills every month and that’s all you get. Then you can’t sell them because if you need them, you’re going to need all 30.
Chris: And you don’t go back to the doctor and ask for more.
Tim: That’s right, because you’re in the controlled substance database, and that makes sure that you don’t get them from multiple people.
Tim: Now cannabis, different. You get to choose how much you take. We just get to set the parameters.
Chris: So why does this set the parameter they do? Is that just to kind of discourage people from selling it?
Chris: Where do they come up with those numbers?
Tim: They come up with the numbers from other states.
Tim: Other states of set these boundaries. In Florida, we talked to Melanie Bone. Remember that interview, and she was talking about in Florida they have a seven month renewal period. They can only use flower if they’ve tried and failed something else. They have less concentrates they can buy than here. Just a different program, different hodge podge of what those doctors and scientists and legislators.
Chris: It’s interesting, I mean, Utah’s not the only state that came up with some goofy laws. I was listening on this same podcast, this Pro Pot, I think is the name of the podcast, they were talking about in Virginia, I guess, just opened up dispensaries. Sounds very similar to Utah. They don’t even have flower yet, I guess, either, but they have the gelatinous cubes and they have the cards and smoking’s not allowed and all that. So it’s interesting to see it’s not just Utah that are coming out with these medical programs that are kind of a little different than we’ve seen in California and Oregon and stuff.
Tim: Yeah, and we had this year… I mean, weed was on the ballot like crazy. Multiple states went recreational or adult use. Multiple more states went with medical programs. And so, yeah, like you said, it’s coming. It does seem like it’s accelerating.
Chris: Well, and with the new presidency, he’s already said he wants to decriminalize cannabis, so let’s see where he can take things. I don’t know, we’ll see.
Tim: We’ll see.
Chris: Yeah. But it’s going to be interesting, 2021. I’m excited. I’m excited for the podcast. I want to start doing some live recordings, some more video recordings. I know we’ve talked about that on the last episode with Josh.
Tim: Yeah, doing some live, and you showed me your Mevo.
Chris: Yeah, the Mevo. I want to do some Mevo recording.
Tim: So when we’re in our office and we can live stream them on… We’ll just put it up on utahmarijuana.org. So 2021, we’re going to live stream some episodes. We’re going to give it a shot. It does appear based on the fact that we made this work even during a global pandemic, Chris, that we’re going to make it through 2021, right?
Chris: Oh, yeah.
Tim: So, another 38, 40… hopefully maybe 50 episodes.
Chris: I want to shoot for 50, because we have 52 weeks, so maybe miss two weeks in there. But let’s shoot for at least 50 episodes.
Tim: So shoot for 50 episodes.
Chris: … in 2021.
Tim: Yeah, we need to do some live streaming.
Chris: Do some live… you know what would be really fun would be to do some live recordings, like I’ve done even at I am Salt Lake. With I am Salt Lake we did them at some of the local bars.
Tim: Okay, for sure.
Chris: Maybe once towards the end of the year, once things start to open up because they’re predicting… I know the vaccines coming to Utah, they say in July. Anyway, we don’t need to get into all that. But I think things are going to start turning around hopefully the end of the year, maybe we can get out… How fun would that be? Do a live recording at a local pharmacy/dispensary, right?
Tim: Oh, yeah.
Chris: That could be really fun.
Tim: That would be really fun.
Chris: Set up the mics right there in the lobby or something. People can watch us chat with one of their pharmacists or some…
Tim: Well, we have a lot of things coming up because in February is our one-year anniversary for the podcast. We obviously have 4/20, which is going to be big. And this year, hopefully even better because hopefully they’re starting to open up a little bit by then. Summer we’ll have some events, some live recording events. This has been really fun because I’m not super excited about 2021.
Chris: And we have a voicemail now. I know I mentioned that on the last episode towards the end of it, but really, call this number in. It’s 385-215-9557. Nobody will ever pick this up. It’s a Google voice number I set up just for this podcast. Nobody will ever pick it up, so call it up, leave a message on there. If you have a question for Tim or myself, if you have a question about getting your card, if you want to get some feedback on an episode, call up that number. You can even text it if you don’t want to have your voice heard or anything, you can just send a text to that number too. And maybe we’ll play it on the show, right? We’ll read the text or…
Tim: Yeah, if you have a message, we can read it, we can play it.
Chris: … play it. I was hoping we’d have some tonight, but nobody’s called in yet. You know, if you have any shout outs you want to make to a local dispensary or a local pharmacist that treated you well, say, “Yo, thanks for taking care of me.” We do have an iTunes review though. I want to read that really quick right now if that’s okay, Tim.
Tim: Yeah, absolutely.
Chris: Which, please go and leave some iTunes reviews. We’ve got a handful of them. It looks like everybody’s really stoked on the podcast. 21. We have 21 five-star ratings right now on iTunes, but the most recent one was just left here the beginning of December by Bluntness in Utah, so that’s fitting: bluntness in Utah.
Tim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: It just says, “Podcasts are on point. Thank you for touching on so many unspoken and gray areas of legalization in Utah.” So straight and to the point. I don’t know about you, Tim, I like to hear what these people have to say about the podcast.
Tim: Yeah, feedback is everything.
Chris: But I think I’ve read all these other ones that were left on here. There’s like four other ones that we’ve gotten.
Tim: That’s pretty cool. I’m glad that people are listening. They’re getting some benefit, learning a thing or two, and you know, just some more understanding about who’s out here in this culture in Utah.
Chris: Let’s talk about utahmarijuana.org though. Or Utah Therapeutic, Utah marijuana clinics, because you have four now, right? You have Ogden now?
Tim: Yes, we have Ogden, West Valley, which is really just West Salt Lake. It’s right across from the Beehive Farmacy there.
Chris: Great location by the way.
Tim: That’s a cool location, yeah. And then Millcreek. 3900 South 7th East. And we’re looking at going to Logan. We should have an announcement about that in the next couple of weeks, at least on a periodic basis in Logan. And we want to expand because there’s patients everywhere, but primarily, we’re trying to take care of the patients that we have now. There’s some laws changing over the next couple of weeks at the first of the year.
Tim: I didn’t want to talk about this too much today because we want to have Katie from the Department of Health on, and I hope to get her on next week. She can really explain the changes in the law and what people can expect. So really stay tuned to the next episode, the next couple of episodes because we’re just going to have the Department of Health come and tell you what you need to know about 2021. So get really prepared for that. And we’ll have more on our Instagram Utah in the Weeds, and utahmarijuana.org Instagram. Of course that’s always the best place to find us.
Chris: Yeah, Instagram I think is probably the best one right now.
Chris: Because I know that’s going to hopefully get a little more active on Instagram.
Tim: Yeah, we’ll start getting a little more active there. And then, I’ve just been really happy with the response from… you know, the interest in utahmarijuana.org and Discover Marijuana on YouTube, it seems like people are really interested in this, it’s not just us, Chris.
Chris: Oh, yay. Can we talk about the hoodies? Let’s talk about the hoodies. So these Utah in the Weeds hoodies, okay so-
Tim: 2020, we even got hoodies done.
Chris: Okay, so you surprised me with these hoodies, Tim. I didn’t even know you were doing it, which is great by the way. Honestly, fantastic. Then you surprised me with some hoodies, like was it last week or the week before?
Tim: Yeah, last week.
Chris: And I posted a picture online, right?
Chris: Obviously I posted it. I was so excited. Nobody was at home. I was hoping Krissie could take a picture. I did it in the mirror, so it’s backward, but whatever. People were like, “I want one.” “Where do I get them?”
Tim: Oh, yeah, okay. So you can buy…
Chris: People are just going to love them.
Tim: Yes. You can buy a Utah in the Weeds hoodie at any of my clinics, the Utah Therapeutic Health Center clinics. So go to utahmarijuana.org, look up one of our clinics. Obviously Millcreek is centrally located 3900 South 740 East. You can go in there during business hours. I think they’re 39 bucks, so we tried to keep the cost down. For a hoodie, they’re a nice hoodie. Utah in the Weeds. Yeah, I was wearing mine earlier.
Chris: Oh, they’re great. They’re so soft and ridiculous. I love them and I’m just like, “Oh, my gosh, I got to get so many people…”
Tim: I know. They’re so fun. We have a pretty limited supply. We did a limited run for Christmas. We gave them to all our QMPs.
Tim: And watch for them around at the dispensaries. And if you work at a dispensary or a pharmacy and you want one, you can wear it outside of work.
Chris: Isn’t that ridiculous that I can’t go to Wholesome or Beehive and buy a hat or a tee-shirt?
Tim: Or a mug.
Chris: Because I’m stoked on them.
Chris: And I’m like, “I want to advertise for you guys.” Nope, can’t do it.
Chris: So ridiculous.
Tim: That’s why we needed some hoodies, Chris.
Chris: Yeah. We should giveaways or something.
Tim: Yeah, totally.
Chris: People that come in to get their cards at utahmarijuana.org, if they come and get a card, they can get a hoodie.
Tim: Yeah, get a hoodie, get a buy-one-get-one hoodie.
Tim: I don’t know, we’ll do something.
Chris: Mention you listened to this, you know?
Tim: I’ll tell you right now, if you mention that you heard about that hoodie on the podcast, I don’t know, Chris, maybe we’ll give 15 bucks off. We’ll give a coupon.
Chris: There you go.
Tim: First 10 people who come in say, “Hey, I heard about this on the podcast,” yes, $25 hoodie.
Tim: That’s a deal.
Chris: Okay, so they can stop by any of the locations, go to utahmarijuana.org to probably get the addresses of the locations so we don’t have to rattle them all. Text us. Get a hoodie. We’ve still got cold days ahead of us. We’ll make some tee-shirts once spring rolls around probably.
Tim: We’ll get Krissie on the design. And kudos for the design.
Tim: Krissie, if you’re listening, way to go.
Chris: Yeah, she did it. My wife did the logo for Utah in the Weeds. She just kind of threw it together, man. I’ve always been a fan of ’70s, so it kind of has a ’70s lettering.
Tim: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, it’s way cool.
Chris: I’m trying to think if there’s anything else that we need to discuss. Did we talk about these transdermal patches? I know that Deseret Wellness…
Tim: Yeah, Deseret Wellness got transdermals.
Chris: And I know you and I, kind of off air, but I figured to let listeners know, they got those down there. I would imagine the other dispensaries will get them.
Tim: Yeah, they’ll come to other dispensaries. Good way for long-acting, consistent dosing throughout the day transdermal.
Chris: What kind of people would you recommend that for?
Tim: I’m going to recommend them to people who are chronically on opioids and they just need something really, really long-acting so they can put the transdermal patch on and get a nice, consistent dose all day long. So I’m going to put them on the chronic pain type situation where you need that long dosing. And you can do inhale for breakthrough still if you need that much. You need to be careful with transdermal because you can get a little over the top.
Chris: I was just going to say it would be nice for people, like say even the businessman that can’t be puffing on his vape all the time at meetings or anything, but he needs to kind of…
Tim: Yup, and you don’t have to bite off half the gelatinous cube, you know?
Tim: And so again, that consistent dosing, that’s the next phase of medical cannabis in my opinion. Bijan talked a little bit about this, like metered-dose inhalers where you get an exact amount, you know how many milligrams you’re getting. That’s where it becomes much more like medicine, and I think providers will like that better when they can say, “Okay, yeah, take this. It’s one inhalation. It’s five milligrams.”
Chris: Because it’s hard right now, because even edibles, you’re not even guaranteed that so much of that cannabis or THC made it into that…
Tim: No, that one gelatinous cube.
Chris: … gelatinous cube, really.
Tim: Yeah, you might have 70% in that one, and 120% in the next one, and you’ve always got be a little careful.
Chris: It’s just the way it works out, man.
Chris: So you think they’ll be able to get that and hone that down, huh?
Chris: You think they’ll be able to hone it down, so you know you’re getting 20 milligrams in that.
Tim: Exactly 20 milligrams. In fact, I suspect that within the next three to five years, you’re going to know… maybe even less time, you’re going to know I want 20 milligrams, 10 milligrams of THS, 10 milligrams of CBD, 10 milligrams of CBG, and that’s what I’m going to get. And I’m going to have that in a transdermal patch and boom.
Chris: You go to the pharmacy, you pick it up.
Tim: And it’s the exact same every time, every dose is going to be very, very consistent.
Tim: It opens up the marketplace even more for a lot of people who don’t like the smell, don’t like the inconsistencies of the strains.
Tim: We love the inconsistencies of the strains.
Chris: Sometimes. Sometimes it gets old though, but the inconsistency is fun just because it opens up new possibilities and new discoveries, and you’re like, “Okay, I want to try this one out.”
Tim: Right, but Grandma does not like inconsistency.
Tim: She gets dizzy when she gets a sativa, she gets a headache or she gets paranoid. No inconsistency for her. And that’s a huge market for drugs and medicine. Anyway, we could go on and on.
Chris: No, you’re great, you’re great. I predict a lot of good things in 2021.
Tim: Yeah, it’s going to be a good year.
Chris: Anything else you want to talk about? I don’t know, should we wrap this up maybe?
Tim: I think we should.
Chris: Should we wrap up this episode?
Tim: Let’s wrap up episode 39.
Chris: You and I went back and forth a few times. No, it’s episode 38. No, it’s episode 39. But we figured it out.
Chris: So yeah, the last episode of 2020. It’s been fun doing this. Merry Christmas, everybody. Happy New Year.
Tim: Yup, Merry Christmas, everybody.
Chris: Be safe.
Tim: Please be safe out there.
Chris: Don’t do stupid stuff. We want you to stick around.
Tim: If you need anything, just give us a holler.
Chris: Reach out. And if you want to come on the podcast, reach out to Tim or myself, or should they reach out to Utah Marijuana?
Tim: Honestly, utahmarijuana.org, if you chat with us online or call, that’s a great… any way you can contact us is probably fine at this point.
Chris: And then somebody would answer the phone there, email, and then they would get it to the right person I guess.
Tim: That’s right.
Chris: Awesome, Tim, awesome. Well, I’ve had a blast doing the show with you, man. I’m so grateful I reached out to you to say, “Hey, let’s do this podcast together.”
Tim: Yes, thank you, thank you.
Chris: How can people get a hold of you? You know the drill.
Tim: It’s the same old drill, utahmarijuana.org. Don’t even need to give a phone number anymore, because that’s I think easier than anything.
Chris: The website, yeah.
Tim: The website. Yeah, with chat, and the phone number’s listed there.
Chris: I was going to say the phone number’s right up in the, I think, right-hand corner.
Tim: Top right corner.
Tim: And we’re really excited for 2021, and keep this momentum up.
Chris: What about those YouTube videos? You want to… are they on the website too?
Tim: Yup. Discover Marijuana is the YouTube channel. Anything we livestream of the podcast will go there on its on feed.
Tim: But Discover Marijuana, you can get to that from utahmarijuana.org, and that has really education videos, like right now we’re posting educational videos, short clips just with marijuana for beginners.
Chris: I love them. I love them. They’re well done.
Tim: I think they’re helping people. I hope they are. How about you, Chris?
Chris: Iamsaltlake.com. I’ve talked about it a couple times in this conversation. Yeah, go check it out. It’s my other podcast I do. I do that with my wife. The last episode was with the Cluck Truck food truck. The next episode you would think I know what it is. I know I have it all recorded. My mind is blank right now, so I’m not going to even say it, but we’re talking to business owners and artist/musicians, and we’ve got a fun year planned out.
Tim: Yeah, so toward that podcast, because there are a lot of… I’ve been really enjoying the local food trucks and the local restaurants, and then we can go out and support them, and they really need our help.
Chris: Well, and we give ideas on how to support them too. Especially with Christmas, one thing to keep in mind, gift cards, gift certificates go a long way, because you can give a gift… Well, this will be up after Christmas, or Christmas day I think this is going out.
Tim: This is the perfect time to go up for the sales, after-Christmas gift cards.
Chris: Get the sales, because with any place, they need that cash right now, and you might not even use it until summer, but if you like an eating establishment here in Utah, and you want it to stick around, go support it because I’ve been reading about New York City and just some of these cities, they’re just… some of these eateries are just shutting down, man.
Tim: Yeah, that’s too bad.
Chris: It’s a bummer. Anyway, we don’t need to be down and out here. We need to keep it up and up on positivity on this podcast. But utahmarijuana.org. Go listen to the podcast there. Go check out the transcripts, and as Tim says…
Tim: Stay safe out there.