Utah’s Medical Cannabis program is now more than a year old. It has been a fantastic first year, that’s for sure. We have seen a couple of growers get up and running. We have seen processors begin turning biomass into some pretty awesome products. Just about all of the Medical Cannabis pharmacies licensed in the state are now open, too. Wouldn’t it be awesome to work at one of them?
The burgeoning Medical Cannabis industry is definitely creating jobs. In a recent episode of Utah in the Weeds, podcast hosts Tim and Chris spoke with a business owner now in the process of setting up a home delivery business. We have written posts discussing home delivery and what a great idea it is but imagine getting to work in the industry as a courier.
Medical Cannabis is an emerging industry that will only get bigger as time goes on. Utah is just one of thirty-six states where Medical Cannabis is legal. The rest will be on board sooner or later. So of course, job opportunities are growing. A lot of them are entry-level opportunities.
Why take an entry-level job? Why become a courier delivering Medical Cannabis products to customers? Because entry-level jobs are an opportunity to get in on the ground level. You get to be part of building something that is going to be really, really big down the road.
As the industry grows, those who got in on the ground floor will have lots of opportunities to move up the ladder. Imagine being on a career path with a constant upward trajectory. Getting a foot in the Medical Cannabis industry now is a lot like what seasoned IT experts did when they took entry-level positions 15 and 20 years ago.
If potential career opportunities are not enough to sway you, think about this: working in the Medical Cannabis industry means working in an industry you actually believe in. Going to work becomes more than just earning a paycheck. You get to work with people who think like you think, people who believe in the power of Cannabis as a medicine.
Not a lot of people get to go to work every day knowing that what they do actually helps people. Sure, they may like the work itself, but they don’t necessarily believe in the cause. You’ll find that’s rarely the case in our industry.
The Utah in the Weeds podcast regularly features guests who are both industry employees and patients. Some of the stuff they talk about makes you just want to stand up and shout. One of the podcast’s recent guests is a patient and Medical Cannabis tech. She fills orders all day. And when she’s not working, she’s talking with other patients in hopes of learning about their experiences. What she learns she can take back to work with her.
Our industry is somewhat unique in the sense that so many workers are also patients. From Qualified Medical Providers (QMPs) to Pharmacy Medical Providers to techs and couriers, patients make great employees because they get it.
We are excited to see how much Utah’s Medical Cannabis industry has grown just within the last year. There is still plenty of room to make the state program better, and legislators are working on that. Meanwhile, our industry is poised to grow in the coming years. With growth will come jobs. How would you feel about applying for one of those jobs? It could be quite an opportunity to get in on something big.
One of the most convenient and highly preferred methods to consume Medical Cannabis is vaping cannabis oil. But as discussed in a recent Utah in the Weeds podcast, there is still plenty of room for improvement when it comes to vaping and cannabis carts.
If you’re not familiar with the terminology, a cart is a small device that screws into the end of a vaporizer battery. The word itself is a shortened version of ‘cartomizer’ which, itself, is a device that combines a liquid cartridge with an electronic atomizer. The atomizer is the part that heats the vaping liquid until it’s vaporized.
Here’s the thing about carts: they don’t always work. That needs to change – and change sooner rather than later. It’s devastating when patients pay good money for a cart, get it home, and then find out they can’t use it. Their medicine is right there at their fingertips, but a malfunctioning cart makes it impossible to get to.
What makes the current situation so frustrating for patients is that vaping did not begin with Medical Cannabis. Vaping is a practice that was originally developed as a smoking alternative more than a decade ago. The first vaping devices were e-cigarettes developed in China and shipped around the world.
This is kind of important. Why? Because the vaping industry is pretty mature. Those who vape choosing to give up tobacco have access to all sorts of devices that work as advertised. Tobacco carts can be shaky from time to time, but most of them are just fine out-of-the-box. It doesn’t make sense that there should be so much trouble with Medical Cannabis carts. Yet here we are.
The other challenge in the vaping arena is finding a liquid that works for you. As was explained during the previously mentioned podcast, patients respond to different Medical Cannabis products in different ways. What works for one patient might not work for another.
Differing responses explain why you can have a cartridge in perfect working order filled with a product that doesn’t really help a particular patient. It’s an equally frustrating scenario. But so much of what goes on right now is a matter of trial and error. Patients just have to keep at it until they find out what works.
There is a move to fix this particular problem by developing more exacting formulas. In other words, extraction operations would create formulas with a scientific profile that doesn’t change from one lot to the next. By doing things this way, manufacturers can know exactly what they are putting into each cart.
More specific profiles would make it easier for Pharmacy Medical Providers (PMPs) to recommend certain products to patients. Those patients would quickly get a better understanding of what works for them, especially if they are tracking their usage.
Despite some of the difficulties and challenges in the vaping arena, things will get better. Vaping itself has improved quite a bit over the last 10 years. Today’s e-cigarette carts are nothing like first-generation devices that would leak and burn out too quickly.
The bottom line is that things will get better. Patients in Utah just need to hold on and let things play out. The state’s Medical Cannabis program will continue evolving and maturing over the next several years. And with each legislative change, the industry will respond with much-needed improvements.
One of the biggest goals we have in the cannabis industry is eliminating the negative stigma surrounding Medical Cannabis treatment. We strive to show that it’s not just for musicians or teenagers — it’s for everyone. To support this goal, for Mother’s Day 2021, Utah Therapeutic Health Center teamed up with WholesomeCo Cannabis to help you make Mom’s day a little brighter. We asked you all to nominate a motherly figure in your life who could use a little relief — and we got to hear some amazing stories! All moms are Wonder Woman and you cannot convince us otherwise. Without further ado, we wanted to take a moment to share some of the incredible feats that mothers go through every day without batting an eyelash.
“My Mamasaurus (right) has been my hero for my whole life. She exemplified what it meant to be a strong, successful woman while ensuring my brothers and I had fond memories to look back on as we got older. In her prime, my mom could work two jobs, coach softball, make all of our Halloween costumes, teach us new skills, and set aside time for each of us individually. She was diagnosed with RA in her 40’s, which was a progression to a myriad of health issues over the course of her life that would cause more and more debilitation that she would match with a stubborn reluctance, so much that you wouldn’t know she suffered from chronic illnesses. To this day, she still shows no hesitations in showing up when we need her, putting together exuberant and unforgettable celebrations for holidays, and providing a safe space for anyone who needs it.”
“My wife has been through the ringer for a long time. She is currently dealing with the pain of a herniated disc as well as 2 bulging discs. The first time in her life that she found relief from this pain was from medical cannabis. Even without this medicine and being in tremendous pain, she treats our children with a love and respect I wish my own mother gave me. The year of 2020 left me sick with post-acute COVID syndrome as well as fibromyalgia. Without skipping a beat, she stepped up to advocate and fill the roles of my own caregiver, on top of everything else she does in day-to-day life.”
“I have an inoperable brain tumor that caused hydrocephalus. I’ve had a headache that is almost old enough to vote. Cannabis is the only thing that helps.”
“This is a picture of my mom holding my daughter for the first time (left). I never truly appreciated what my mom must have gone through nurturing and raising 8 kids before having my daughter. My daughter taught me selflessness. I learned kindness, patience, and compassion from my mom (and a bunch of songs that are coming in really handy raising a kiddo). In addition to dealing with an illness that can be debilitating at times, she works full-time teaching at-risk youth. She’s a wonderful mom, grandmom, and all-around A+ human. She deserves to enjoy her life and live it fully. Love you, mama!”
“[My mom] has been through so much in the last decade – an MS diagnosis, losing her husband (my dad) to cancer, two knee replacements, multiple surgeries, frequent injections, and other treatments for chronic pain, moving across the country to live with me and my husband… As her MS progresses, she experiences more and more pain and fatigue, as well as depression and frequent dizziness. And through it all she has ALWAYS been there for me and my siblings whenever we need her. And, she’s become an incredible, loving grandmother to my daughter. She has tried so many different medications over the past decade to treat her many health challenges. I was so grateful when she started exploring medical cannabis as a treatment option for her pain! It feels like the first thing that has really given her consistent relief.”
“[My friend] is an amazing friend, wife, and the mother to a beautiful, smart, sweet little girl (right). She’s also a “mother” to 16 children daily in her job at a daycare center. She shows every single one of those children
love day in and day out, regardless of how she’s feeling physically or emotionally. Her body often fights against her, causing her to vomit, lose weight, or lose sleep. She deserves to feel better!”
And now, the winner of our giveaway! Her daughter says “I want to nominate [my mom] Teresa. She raised 7 kids and is now raising her grandchildren as well. She has worked hard for years doing landscaping and now suffers from arthritis and foot pain from all of the digging she has done. My mom has also had 2 knee replacement surgeries that cause her chronic pain. I think she would be the perfect candidate for medical cannabis. Being a mother, she is always the last person on her list to take care of. If she won it would give her an excuse to take care of herself for once. She deserves it!”
Moms come in all shapes and sizes, but they all come with love. Whether your ma is silly, serious, nurturing, career-driven, or a terrible cook, she loves you, she’s wonderful, and she deserves to be happy. If you’re able, hug your mother today. And of course, if your mom could use a little help feeling better, have her call us. Medical Cannabis treatment could be just the hope she’s been looking for. Happy (belated) Mother’s Day from utahmarijuana.org!
Did you know that the state offers a free patient tracking journal to Medical Marijuana users? And what’s more, you can download it directly from the state’s Medical Cannabis website. It’s a PDF document you can save and reproduce as often as you like. It’s also pretty simple to use.
The document gives you space to write in the date, the product you’ve used, your dosage, and the method of delivery. There is also space to document how you are feeling before and after use. Finally, there is space to enter any side effects that you might have experienced.
Keeping track of your Medical Cannabis use might seem completely unnecessary. If so, we would like you to reconsider. There are three excellent reasons to keep track of what you’re doing.
At the top of the list is tracking what works as opposed to what doesn’t. If you’ve been to a Medical Cannabis dispensary, you know there are tons of products to choose from. Dispensaries have different strains and varieties of Medical Cannabis to choose from, as well as different delivery methods. You can go with ingestibles, topicals, vaping products, etc.
The thing is, many patients use more than one product. They find that a particular strain works very well for some symptoms while another strain relieves others. Patients prefer one delivery method or another depending on how they feel that day. Keeping track of it all is the best way to figure out what works for you. There’s no point in spending money on product that doesn’t work.
Your Medical Cannabis pharmacist is here to help you get the most out of the product you buy. They want you to have fewer seizures. They want you to experience as little pain as possible. But in order to do that, they need to know how different products affect you. Keeping track in a journal helps to provide your pharmacist with valuable information.
Medical Cannabis pharmacists fully understand cannabis and the endocannabinoid system. But they don’t know how a particular product affects you if you don’t tell them. One of the best ways to keep your pharmacist informed is to keep records. Then you don’t have to try to remember — just bring your journal with you every time you visit the dispensary.
Topping it all off is the practice of using your records as a shopping list of sorts. Assuming you use more than one product, you want to make sure you have enough on hand at all times. When you visit the dispensary, you want to be able to pick up whatever you need until the next visit. Your journal can help.
How does it work? Start with a base amount of your favorite products. You will already be keeping track of how much you use by filling out your journal. Then just take the journal with you to the dispensary. If your journal shows you used so many grams of a particular product, buy that much during your visit. Simple!
Remember that the state’s patient-tracking journal is a PDF document. You print it out so there are no worries of providing information to the state. You are merely keeping track of your Medical Cannabis usage to better understand what works for you, to help your pharmacist better understand, and to make it easier for you keep enough product on hand.
Believe it or not, we’re not just all about sticky, icky green cannabis flower here. Utah Therapeutic Health Center, UtahMarijuana.org’s affiliate clinic, cares about making our planet a greener place in all senses of the word. To show Mother Nature a little love this Earth Day, UTTHC took an evening last week to plant trees with the volunteer group Tree Utah.
Founded in 1988, the non-profit organization Tree Utah started as the brainchild of Salt Lake Tribune journalist Pepper Provenzano. In their own words, Tree Utah’s Community Tree Planting Program “helps make our schools and parks beautiful and inviting by planting and maintaining large trees. With newly planted trees, these areas will help improve the air, lower temperatures in our cities, and even reduce crime.” For us here at utahmarijuana.org, that’s all we needed to hear to want to help out.
In September 2020, Utah had a near-apocalyptic windstorm that took out many of the trees in the state. Giant trees that have outlived most of us were uprooted and pulled from the ground like dandelions. For days, fallen trees lined the streets and many lived without power as the storm took out power lines, cars, and even homes. In short: Utah needed more trees.
We couldn’t wait for Earth Day to help our community go green. (One could argue we’ve been helping our community go green for about a year now, no?) On Thursday, April 15th, the Utah Therapeutic Health Center crew bundled up, braved the cold rain, hail, and snow to plant trees in Utah’s beautiful International Peace Gardens. We planted two trees just outside of the England area of the gardens, which we so 
fittingly named Treech and Chong. (Treech pictured left.) Even in spite of the weather, the Tree Utah event helped give 13 trees a new home that evening.
How did you show your planet some love this holiday? Better yet, how do you show your planet love every day? Even little things like reusable water bottles and carpooling once a week help her feel better. As always, if Utah Therapeutic Health Center can help you feel better, please give us a call or reserve an appointment online.
Looking for another way to go green? Check out the Utah in the Weeds podcast, hosted by Chris Holifield and utahmarijuana.org founder Tim Pickett. Tim and Chris chat with Medical Cannabis patients and those in the industry about everything from laws to favorite strains. It’s a must-listen for those looking to learn more about the Utah cannabis space and community.
It’s not uncommon for Medical Cannabis patients to use terms like ‘cannabis’, ‘marijuana’, and ‘hemp’ interchangeably. It can easily lead to confusion. Throw in discussions on THC and CBD and things get even more confusing. There is a reason for this: people just don’t understand the terms.
An incredibly wise person once said that the key to having difficult discussions is to define your terms and avoid pronouns. Regardless though, defining the terms is important when you’re talking about Medical Marijuana.
For example, cannabis and hemp are not two separate plants. Neither are hemp and marijuana. Hemp and marijuana are both species of cannabis sativa. The biggest differences between the two are the amount of THC they contain and the viability of their seeds.
Hemp and Medical Cannabis are both legally allowed in Utah. Most of the hemp grown in the state is grown for industrial use. Whether for industrial, medical, or personal use, growers have to abide by the federal THC threshold.
Federal law defines hemp as cannabis sativa plants with a THC content of 0.3% or less. This is achieved through breeding. As long as a plant’s THC profile comes in under the threshold, it’s fine. If it exceeds it though, it is no longer hemp – it is marijuana.
According to a 2019 article published by the Salt Lake Tribune, authorities destroyed more than 16,300 plants that year because they came in above the 0.3% limit. In the industry, this is what’s known as ‘testing hot’. Licensed growers cannot grow hot plants without a separate license. And even at that, doing so is for medical applications only.
A few months ago, we published a blog post discussing the main differences between CBD and THC. Those differences mean everything when it comes to classifying Medical Cannabis products. Still, both CBD and THC are medically viable, which is to say they can both be used as medicines.
So what happens to hemp that is grown for medicinal purposes? It is sent to processors who extract the THC and CBD. These extractions are subject to the same federal threshold. Extractors who produce products with more than 0.3% THC content are now producing Medical Cannabis products.
They can do a lot more with CBD. This explains why there are so many CBD-infused products on the market. And yet those products are often confused with Medical Cannabis products because many people don’t know the difference between CBD and THC.
What it really boils down to is a lack of solid education. People just don’t know the terms. This is true on so many levels. From legislators to retailers and consumers, a lot of people don’t clearly understand the finer points of cannabis, hemp, marijuana, THC, and CBD.
As long as the Beehive State has agreed to legalize Medical Marijuana, it’s probably a good idea to follow up with a more robust educational program. Maybe it’s time to start teaching this stuff in our schools. It is definitely time to begin educating doctors and pharmacists.
We’ve learned a lot about Medical Cannabis and hemp over the last couple of years. There is still a lot more to learn though. Education is the key. The more we know about the many benefits of the cannabis plant, the better prepared we will be to use it to our full advantage.
Cannabis has been cultivated for industrial and other purposes for thousands of years. You would think that there would be little confusion as a result. But sadly, this is not the case. People cannot properly define the terms, and until they can, there will be this confusion.
Medical Cannabis patient and advocate Carlos Lopez is Chris and Tim’s guest for episode 54 of Utah and the Weeds. Like so many other patients, Lopez has a fascinating story of how he came to Medical Cannabis as a prescription opioid user.
Lopez was born in 1988 and grew up in the DARE era. [04:41] He even completed the DARE program in middle school. What he learned from that program kept him away from drugs until an accident during his junior year in high school.
Lopez suffered an injury to his eye after being shot in the face with a BB gun. [06:33] The BB penetrated his eye socket and caused nerve damage. His doctors put him on ibuprofen in the weeks following surgery to remove the BB. [08:39] The ibuprofen eventually gave way to opioids, which doctors were gradually increasing to compensate for Lopez’ tolerance.
Some 16 years later, he still suffers debilitating migraines and nerve pain. He was introduced to cannabis by a friend during his senior year in high school. Lopez says he found instant relief. He began using cannabis to self-medicate and has since stopped using opioids altogether.[10:27]
It was the Utah in the Weeds podcast that introduced Lopez to the idea of getting his Medical Cannabis card late last year. [12:45] As an avid user, Lopez is also committed to research and education. He follows all the growers in Utah along with the products they are producing.
Above and beyond his story, Lopez spoke with Tim and Chris about Utah’s supply problem. [27:51] The trio briefly talked about how the problem will only get worse as more people get their cards. There was also a brief discussion on some of the different products and delivery methods Lopez uses. [43:51] It was a great discussion from start to finish.
Chris Holifield: So yeah, let’s welcome everybody out today to this episode of Utah in the Weeds. My name’s Chris Holifield.
Tim Pickett: And I’m Tim Pickett, Medical Cannabis Expert in Utah and a provider here in today’s episode.
Chris Holifield: Oh man, I am so excited to play this one.
Tim Pickett: We were waiting for this for a while, right?
Chris Holifield: Yeah, this is with Carlos Lopez. This is a Utah Cannabis patient here in Utah. This guy — he’s the biggest advocate.
Tim Pickett: He’s the number one member of the Utah Cannabis Fan Club.
Chris Holifield: But in a good way.
Tim Pickett: He really is.
Chris Holifield: This guy’s got such a great story. I was so excited to have him on the show and share it, just listen this conversation and you’ll know what I’m talking about.
Tim Pickett: This was one of my favorite conversations. He has a really, really good story. Talking about his-
Chris Holifield: I don’t want to give too many spoilers, though.
Tim Pickett: I know, right. Talking about his injury and how that affected-
Chris Holifield: How cannabis really saved his life.
Tim Pickett: And how he got back into cannabis, or how he got into cannabis in the first place is just fascinating.
Tim Pickett: Okay, so a couple of housekeeping things.
Chris Holifield: 4/20’s coming up on-
Tim Pickett: 4/20 is coming up next Tuesday.
Chris Holifield: So depending on when you’re listening to this, this comes out the Friday before 4/20. So if you’re listening to this before 4/20, we’ve got some events.
Tim Pickett: That’s right. So one event that I’ll mention is a patient drive that we’re doing in partnership with EDM Cannabis Shop, CBD Shop on 7100 South and State Street. If you want an appointment for this, it’s going to be food trucks and music and there’s a pretty steep discount. This is not a listed event online. You’ve got to call their shop to get an appointment. EDM Cannabis Shop, 7100 South and State. Check that out if you really feel like you need to get in for a card evaluation, you can do that.
Chris Holifield: Then the big events at Dragonfly.
Tim Pickett: Dragonfly.
Chris Holifield: They actually posted some on Instagram here. I don’t know if you wanted to mention it Tim, or I can just even read the little flyer here. It just says, “Utah Canna Fest. It’s a community event featuring Utah Cannabis industry leaders, local artisan booths, food trucks, 4/20 deals, raffles and giveaways,” and then they’re going to introduce the Utah Patient Subsidy Program, brought to you by the Utah Patient’s Coalition, that’s Mario’s group, isn’t it?
Tim Pickett: Well, it’s Desiree Hennessy-
Chris Holifield: That’s right, Desiree Hennessy.
Tim Pickett: Desiree Hennessy runs that group. She’s going to announce that program in partnership with, and there’s more than Dragonfly involved in the Subsidy Program, than just Dragonfly, but they are definitely the biggest, they sponsor the opening of the event. We’re going to give away a couple of free visits in the raffle, so some free evaluations.
Tim Pickett:
There’s going to be some other really good gifts, so come down.
Chris Holifield:
And we want to recording some of the podcast, so if you see Tim or I and you want to say a few words, say “Hey, I’d love to say a few words on the podcast,” and then that way we can record with you.
Tim Pickett: That’s right.
Chris Holifield: I don’t know exactly what we’ll be doing with the podcast. But I have a few ideas.
Tim Pickett: I don’t know what time we’ll be recording but I’ll be there most all of the day.
Chris Holifield: Says this is 11:00 to 7:00 and they’re right downtown, 711 South State Street. Right across from Sapa, if you know where that is, the old Sears building downtown.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, that’s going to be an exciting event. And then I think all of the all of the pharmacies have discount programs surrounding 4/20, kind of the cannabis holiday, Cannabis Christmas.
Chris Holifield: Cannabis Christmas. Anything else going on with utahmarijuana.org that you want to discuss?
Tim Pickett: We could open up, we could just mention it. We’re going to open up our Provo location for evaluations starting May 1st, again, so Utah County will have just more access down there. All kinds of fun things going on, just stay tuned to the podcast.
Chris Holifield: And utahmarijuana.org is Instagram-med to go follow you guys there to see what you guys have got going on. Utahmarijuana.org/podcast, go there. We’ve got 53 other episodes up there, so I know it’s a lot but there’s some good content up there. You can learn a lot about the program here in Utah, you can learn a lot about the people here. But there’s a lot of good information there.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, it’s a great place to go. I’m excited for people to listen to this.
Chris Holifield: Yeah, Carlos Lopez, let’s get into this one. Like I said, he’s a cannabis patient here in Utah. He’s got a great story about some different pain issues that he had to deal with and how cannabis has really helped him take the bull by the horns, so to say, and take life on.
Chris Holifield: So anyways, let’s get into that conversation. Here we go.
Chris Holifield: Your first time you used cannabis, how you got introduced to it, let’s go back there for you.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, so as I was saying, I’m a ’90s kid, born in ’88. So the first time I was introduced, I’m ”just say no” era. I grew up in grade school in DARE program. They embedded that in my head. I did that before I started class, I did that… there was an after program, you did that almost on a daily. And I got the t-shirt with the lion, graduated.
Chris Holifield: I remember the DARE t-shirt.
Carlos Lopez: Uh-huh. For some kids it was probably whatever, but I was only in fourth, fifth grade. It stuck. In my head, I’m thinking this is the evil weed. The government, like I was saying, the whole reefer madness. That was in my head. That was a mental thing. It was a mental thing. It was, “No, stay away. Smoking’s bad.”
Chris Holifield: So, of course, you believed it.
Carlos Lopez: I believed it, right. As an adolescent, right. So I’m growing up, middle school, high school goes along. I stayed away from it. I hung around with kids that did it. “It just doesn’t do anything for me,” that was my cop out, “It doesn’t do anything for me.”
Chris Holifield: Did you grow up here in Utah?
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I grew up right here in West Valley, Kearns.
Chris Holifield: So that’s why I was kind of curious, the area. That makes — I mean, Utah, I could imagine Utah, especially.
Tim Pickett: That’s an interesting way to put it, right. “It doesn’t do anything for me.”
Carlos Lopez: That was my-
Tim Pickett: That’s your go-to, right?
Carlos Lopez: That was the way I-
Tim Pickett: I remember-
Carlos Lopez: Instead of just say no, because the DARE program was “Just say no.” And that worked too, but by the time I-
Tim Pickett: But that doesn’t work in some of these… It’s like these kids have… It’s a little bit of peer pressure. It’s not like direct pressure, it’s like you want to fit in, you want to be part of the group.
Carlos Lopez: Definitely.
Tim Pickett: And that’s an interesting way to do it. I haven’t heard that. But I remember kids in high school and college saying that to me. Now, I’ve got to go back and think, “Huh, was that just you not wanting to do it?”
Carlos Lopez: No, that was just from being young and remembering the program and just sticking to it. I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought I was doing the right thing and doing good at school. So school goes along and it wasn’t until it was the end of my junior going into senior, I had an accident. I was shot in the face with a CO2 pistol, and the BB penetrated my left eye socket and it rolled behind my left eye, and it rested there. And it wasn’t until my mom took me, a week later, from when the swelling went down to take X-rays, that we saw a little dot in my skull.
Carlos Lopez: The doctor’s like “There’s a BB in there. We’ve got to take that out.” I was scared. I was at that time, I don’t want you to cut my face. And, “No, no. We can do precision. We can easily pull your eye out so far and we work around it, put you out.” I said, “Okay.” We made the date, and it happened.
Carlos Lopez: I still have it to this day, the little BB jar, plastic jar with my X-ray. That’s actually what I took when I went to Empathetix to get my stuff for the first time. That was the moment where my life changed because from there, ever since that surgery, from waking up, they did great. They did a great job, got it out, they were recording it but I don’t want to watch it. I have a weak stomach so I can’t watch stuff like that, so I didn’t watch the video, but I took the BB and the X-rays.
Tim Pickett: Right, I mean you’ve got to have something.
Chris Holifield: How long ago was this?
Carlos Lopez: ‘05. Yeah, to answer your question, where you started, this was in ’05 this happened.
Chris Holifield: So 16 years ago.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, 16 years’ish ago and I was put on steroids and cortisone shots, because I used to have migraines. Ever since that shot, I’ve had these horrible spike migraines and this pressure that builds up, because on this left side of my face, when the BB hit, there was nerve damage, so it goes like down this along the side of my face. So I have this outside nerve pain, almost if you could imagine the tip of a knife, but 1,000 of them throughout that area. And then on the inside, it triggers the migraines and the headaches, so it’s like between the two of them, it’s almost unbearable.
Chris Holifield: So what were you using for pain then?
Carlos Lopez: At that time, they were putting me on opioids, like pain pills. I was taking the lower prescription, because I was starting off with over the counter, Ibuprofen. It wasn’t cutting it. From there, the doctor put me on some lower dose Loratab and then the pain was still throbbing and it was just gradually going. The doses were increasing, the opioid amount was getting more, I don’t know if you call it more potent?
Tim Pickett: Yeah, you build up tolerance.
Carlos Lopez: It was like over, for me, it wasn’t until the end of high school my senior year that after doing the pills for almost a year and it would affect my digestive system, I wasn’t able to use the restroom like I normally would. It would affect my appetite. I just was…
Chris Holifield: Were you bedridden?
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, absolutely. I was numb… I would turn myself off. I almost feel scratchy when I’m taking my medicine. Just not myself. I was like, “This is not me.” I just didn’t like who I was becoming over that year.
Tim Pickett: What people don’t understand is that you walk in here. You look, there is no physical sign that you have this, that you’ve had this injury, or that you’ve had this opioid prescriptions. It’s not visible. And people forget that.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah. It wasn’t until like I said, like you said the tolerance builds, and eventually but it doesn’t stop the pain, because I get this building pressure, where it’s almost like a hot iron mixed with a sledgehammer whacked against your head, this is when the migraines trigger.
Carlos Lopez: And then obviously I can tolerate the knife pain more than that. On the outside, but so it wasn’t until after the shots and the pills that a friend of mine growing up with, one of my best friends actually, he had knee pain playing football. Anyways he used to use cannabis and smoke. Weed back then, we’d call it, or bud whatever.
Carlos Lopez: And it wasn’t until then, we were hanging out and he was, “You know what?” And I was having an episode and I didn’t have my pills with me. And he’s like, “Look, try this dude.” At the time I was already almost done with school. I was thinking, “Oh, what the hell. It seems to help. He’s my friend, he’s not going to steer me the wrong way because we grew up together. He’s my best friend.”
Carlos Lopez: And he had some kind of OG or something, I can’t remember if it was a Kush, and that was my first introduction to real cannabis, like full inhalation and I remember hitting that flower and it was just like, just relief. If you can imagine things felt tight and gritty and it was just like things soften and relaxed. Just that pain, that pressure built up and that iron hot just faded.
Chris Holifield: So when he let you use cannabis, were you familiar with the term medical cannabis, at all?
Carlos Lopez: Not at all.
Chris Holifield: You were just used to it kind of as a recreational thing.
Carlos Lopez: 100% DARE program, just say no. This is evil weed.
Tim Pickett: But you hadn’t done any research on it or anything.
Carlos Lopez: Oh, other than like growing up and what the school taught us, no.
Tim Pickett: You’re just introduced to it-
Carlos Lopez: So I may be a little ignorant in that aspect, I guess I could say.
Tim Pickett: But that’s-
Carlos Lopez: But I just thought they were teaching us the right thing, because it was school. I don’t know.
Chris Holifield: You probably haven’t had a ton of opportunity to talk about your story, I would imagine.
Carlos Lopez: No. It’s been secret.
Chris Holifield: Yeah, well, I mean it’s-
Carlos Lopez: This is honestly the first time I’m really opening up.
Chris Holifield: Well, thank you.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, we appreciate that, and I think vocalization the story to yourself sometimes, really makes a big impact on how you’re hearing your own story out loud and you’re like, “Oh, my God. This is real.”
Chris Holifield: You said you got your card a year ago?
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, so it was towards the end of last year, I finally was able to be legal. Visiting Empathetix and doing research and actually what got me to it was your Utah in the work, following your IG handle [crosstalk 00:13:01]-
Tim Pickett: Oh yeah, @utah_marijuana_org.
Carlos Lopez: I was starting to hear your podcast and I was starting to tie two and two. I was like, okay yeah. I started learning more from these people like I was talking about, with Zach, with Mario going way back, and I was like, “Okay, I needed to do research. I’m paying for insurance, what am I doing?” But I guess insurance doesn’t cover it anyway.
Tim Pickett: Right.
Carlos Lopez: I figured dealing with what I have with I have the medical records I have from my incident to the surgery to the post surgeries to the script of the papers that they have me trying out. The A’s, B’s, and C’s that don’t work.
Chris Holifield: You have enough documentation.
Tim Pickett: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Carlos Lopez: I get it, you can’t physically see it, but mine’s all internal.
Chris Holifield: So are you off of all of opioids?
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, absolutely. It was then. From that moment that I tried that whatever it was, I think it was OG, I can’t remember, Skywalker, whatever it was. I remember him saying, “OG Kush,” it was love at first sight. It was all the relief without the icky side effects that I get from pharmaceuticals.
Tim Pickett: Instead of feeling worse, you felt better.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I felt better. I didn’t have, like I said, that throbbing and that iron sensation from my chronic headaches, and I also, this is before my accident but I’ve had chronic insomnia, ever since I’ve been little. I just… it’s just the way it is.
Chris Holifield: As do we all-
Tim Pickett: You’ve got the magic pill, right?
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, so it just seemed to solve so many things that these pills can’t really do, in the long run. And it seems like those, not just harm you but they kill you. So I figured this is like… I started to do more research and look into the plant more and there’s still way more I need to learn, but figure out THC and CBD and all these other ones, like CBC and CBG and CBN and THCV and THCA and all this, it keeps going. The list goes and goes.
Carlos Lopez: There’s so many medicinal benefits that were… so eye opening. I was just in shock. I was like, “Wow, this is what the government’s been repressing (from) us, all this time.”
Tim Pickett: It does seem like that, doesn’t it?
Carlos Lopez: They’re keeping us from this natural, alternative medicine.
Tim Pickett: When you tried in 2005 and then you start using it and basically your options are smoke flower?
Carlos Lopez: Well, yeah. At the time, basically I had a friend that his cousin basically had what we would call the plug, the connect. And I had flower on me at that time… We had great, different varieties, great strains. Big, beautiful buds. I think they were coming from California or Oregon, I can’t remember at the time. Whether it was you wanted flower, dabs weren’t as big back then. It was mostly just flower. And then a little bit later on, maybe five, 10 years as down the line is when carts maybe started to pop up.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, it doesn’t seem like I ever saw a cart until 2015.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah.
Chris Holifield: I remember the first time I ever saw a cart.
Carlos Lopez: It was weird.
Chris Holifield: I was like, “get out of here.” I just thought it was, “Oh, my gosh.”
Carlos Lopez: Like what the heck.
Chris Holifield:
All I knew was you put flower in a little glass pipe.
Carlos Lopez: That’s what I was doing.
Tim Pickett: It was either a glass pipe or what you could make.
Chris Holifield: These are cartridges, get out of here! Now, they’re the hot thing. Now everybody’s got carts.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, so honestly just between that and obviously as time rolled on and I’ve been working, like I said, it’s a steady job. I’m fortunate that I’ve had a consistent living, 15 now plus years and-
Tim Pickett: Do you believe cannabis helped you?
Carlos Lopez: Absolutely. Cannabis saved my life.
Chris Holifield: It helped make you a functioning member of society.
Carlos Lopez: It’s given me back things that I wouldn’t ever have that the pills they give you bedridden, they turn you off from life. You’re numb. Where cannabis, almost puts life in me. I’m able to work longer, better, more efficient. I can be around my family more often and not hurt.
Chris Holifield: And when you mentioned insomnia.
Carlos Lopez: I can sleep.
Chris Holifield: There’s nothing worse than getting up the next day and not sleeping, dude like, “Oh man, I’ve got an hour’s sleep. Now, I’m expected to go to work and be nice to my fellow employees.”
Carlos Lopez: Yeah.
Tim Pickett: Nice, cordial, obey the rules.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah.
Tim Pickett: Now, you have… So it’s not really just the pain relief, it’s the added benefit of now you sleep better, so you actually have less pain because you sleep better and you can recover better.
Carlos Lopez: Yes, I get a better night’s sleep between being able to combat my insomnia and the pain, I’m forever grateful for this plant.
Tim Pickett: Tell me about your tolerance. Your tolerance at the beginning, obviously pretty low. Everybody starts out pretty low.
Carlos Lopez: Oh yeah, for sure.
Tim Pickett: What’s your use look like? Has it gone up and down?
Carlos Lopez: It’s been a rollercoaster really. Honestly, there are some times that I’ve done tolerance breaks even, believe it nor not, as much as you think I’m consuming, there are times-
Tim Pickett: No, the reason I ask because I don’t know your use-
Carlos Lopez: No, no, right. Just to give you an idea of what it looks like.
Tim Pickett: Right, like I’m assuming that it is going to go up sometimes, go down sometimes.
Carlos Lopez: It is, definitely. The more I find the more I use, for me, for example, I like to start my day with dabs, I don’t know what it is, but from waking up and having sore joints and your muscles, it helps get things a little bit loose and relaxed, and between I get my dab in me. Because I’m working on the office, I work a lot of the keyboard, the mouse, I take my balm, I’d always rub my balm on, that’s really effective. It helps my wrist and my right shoulder and I’m ready to go. Between my good dab, and if I don’t have a dab, then definitely flower is what I’m resorting to.
Carlos Lopez: Then gummies. You’ve got to be careful, because sometimes I overdo it and it can be too much at once. And you’re done. Like I’m sorry, “I might have to clock out for the day.”
Tim Pickett: We always recommend that people start without-
Carlos Lopez: Low and slow, for sure.
Tim Pickett: Like don’t start with edibles. They’re hard to adjust to.
Carlos Lopez: It is.
Tim Pickett: I know-
Chris Holifield: Well they creep up you, man.
Tim Pickett: They creep up on you and you get two hours in and you’re like, “Wow, if this gets any worse, I’m in trouble.” Well, you might be an hour in and you might be thinking, “Wow, if this gets any worse,” like you said, “I’ve got to clock out.”
Tim Pickett: But they’re so convenient because they’re very discrete.
Carlos Lopez: Absolutely.
Tim Pickett: They’re relatively healthy from a use standpoint and a side effects standpoint. But they’re a little tricky.
Carlos Lopez: They are.
Tim Pickett: And there’s been a ton, like… man have you seen? It seems like the feeds are all about these drinks and these added things, you’re adding to a drink.
Chris Holifield: Oh, for like THC?
Tim Pickett: Yeah, THC.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I’ve seen that. I think is it Select that has those new drops? I think I was actually-
Tim Pickett: Yeah, you add them to, it is, Curaleaf owns that company. They’re not available in Utah. So for any listeners-
Chris Holifield: Yeah, I was going to say, I haven’t seen these.
Tim Pickett: You can’t have drinks in Utah, and you can’t technically have edibles in Utah. You can have gelatinous cubes-
Carlos Lopez: That’s the gummies we get.
Tim Pickett: Which is the gummies you get, which as of April 1st, they won’t be coated in sugar.
Chris Holifield: Wait, wait. Tell me more about these. Because I think we talked about that.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, we talked a little bit to Rich Oborn on this.
Carlos Lopez: How is that going to work with all these sugar-coated ones?
Chris Holifield: Why can’t they have sugar?
Tim Pickett: I don’t think it’s the Department of Health. It wasn’t their rule. I think it was the Department of Agriculture. But because you can have gelatinous cubes, but you can’t have edibles, my understanding is the sugar coating makes them more candy like and so is more attractive to kids-
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, the youth.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, more tasty. So they’re going to essentially individually wrap every single gelatinous cube to keep them from sticking together, because they only use-
Chris Holifield: You know, I think there’s a lot more things to worry about like the candy aisle in a grocery store or-
Tim Pickett: Right? Or the sugar consumption of American children…
Chris Holifield: Like come on, let’s-
Carlos Lopez: Get real.
Chris Holifield: Yeah to me there’s a lot more to worry about than if my gelatinous cube has some sugar on it.
Tim Pickett: Maybe we should just educate people to buy a lock-in case, put their medicine into the locked cabinet and keep it safe.
Chris Holifield: Right.
Carlos Lopez: So, there you go.
Tim Pickett: Likely just as effective. We like to hound those guys on little things like this. And I’m sure they think the same thing, they’re like, “Ah, I don’t know but it probably seems like the right thing to do to adjust the rules.”
Tim Pickett: Anyway, sorry, we got off topic.
Carlos Lopez: No, no.
Chris Holifield: That’s the joy of a podcast.
Tim Pickett: But the use, right? Have you gotten up to the point where you’ve been using an ounce a week? Or, an ounce a month?
Carlos Lopez: No, but what I do is like to mix it up. So I used to, before becoming legal, I used to really just stick one way. I’d use heavy flower, maybe sometimes I’d switch it to dabs. I kind of flip flopped to be honest. And then once becoming legal and now having these options, and I experiment, so I like to branch out. I did start here at Wholesome, that’s where I brought my letter because I was down on Dover Street, at Empathetix. It was seven, 10 minutes away. So I didn’t realize I was married to Wholesome, you know, until I got my card, at the time.
Carlos Lopez: So it’s the farthest from me, because I’m all the way in West Valley.
Tim Pickett: Oh, shoot.
Chris Holifield: Because you had a letter.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, because I had a letter, but I immediately had already paid the fee before walking out of Empathetix because I did the online fee, so it was already pending to convert. But it still took like 10, I can’t remember how long it was, but it was a little bit less than two weeks, but it felt forever.
Tim Pickett: Yeah. And it does, and there are going to be, so that everybody knows, they are going to upgrade the system and they passed a rule to allow us to give cards immediately. It won’t be effective until later this year, October, November, but then you’ll go back to this system where you can leave your QMP, you can go right over. Like here. We’re right next to Wholesome, recording. You could leave here and you could walk right through the door, check in and boom, purchase. Just like the letter program.
Carlos Lopez: That’s something to look forward to.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, with access though. You can kind of switch it up. You can buy a little. You don’t have to buy a ton.
Carlos Lopez: They kind of opened the floodgates, if you will. Not like that, but it really introduced a whole new realm of products and varieties. I didn’t have that opportunity before. And so I do, I’m like that trial and error guy. I first try it, if it works then I will stick behind it. If it doesn’t, then axed off the list.
Chris Holifield: Do you have a favorite strain?
Carlos Lopez: Definitely. Overall? Or, here?
Chris Holifield: Something that you’ve into been lately, both.
Tim Pickett: Both.
Chris Holifield: Overall.
Carlos Lopez: Overall, I’m a huge OG fan. Anything really OG, Skywalker OG from Perfect Earth seems to really kick me good. Hit me where I need to be.
Chris Holifield: I haven’t been up to Perfect Earth yet.
Tim Pickett: No, we need those guys to come on the podcast, but they’re growing some pretty good product up there, too.
Carlos Lopez: It does. I’ve been keeping my eyes on them. They have a pretty interesting, beautiful looking grow, so we’ll see what they produce.
Tim Pickett: Yeah. And you follow pretty much all the growers and you know when the drops are happening.
Carlos Lopez: That’s right, yeah.
Tim Pickett: So essentially we could just follow you, and we would know.
Carlos Lopez: I wish.
Tim Pickett: You’d be like the kayak of the cannabis industry. You’ll keep track of it all for us and you’ll let us know.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I don’t mind at all helping. I mean honestly, ever since this, not just this podcast, but with the whole program we have and the IG, I get DM’s daily, to this day. People I don’t know, and they ask me, “Hey, how was that?” Or, “Hey, what was this?” Because, certain things that I have tried that people have known about. Things that may have worked for me, and that didn’t work for me.
Chris Holifield: That’s right because on your Instagram, you post all the stuff you’re getting.
Carlos Lopez: I have had most of them that are definitely ones that work for me and I think there are very, very few let known didn’t cut it, basically. The majority of them, yes. They’re winners, for me anyway.
Chris Holifield: What about your family and friends, man? What do they think about your cannabis use?
Carlos Lopez: They’re, honestly, they think it’s probably the best thing that happened to me. From the ones, at least the closest ones that’ve seen me at my darkest time, back then, fully support what I’m doing and what’s going on in Utah as far as progressing hopefully, legalization’s. Because everyone should have the right to enjoy this God-given plant. No one should be deprived of this. We’re all dealing with something in some form or fashion.
Chris Holifield: Well, yeah exactly. It’s kind of like who said that? One of the pharmacists I think that we talked to said that we chatted with them but then they were like, “We all kind of use it medicinally, even if we’re not -”
Tim Pickett: All use is medicinal.
Chris Holifield: Yeah, because you’re using it for a reason.
Tim Pickett: People that if you interview cannabis users, you’re using it for all kinds of things. You’re using it for the Saturday afternoon creative jam session. You’re using it when you paint. You’re using it to sleep, to suppress dreams if you have PTSD. Think of all the things, and this is all just something that somebody who has access to it, would just use it for, it’s almost like an instinct.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, exactly. No it is, absolutely.
Tim Pickett: You reach for something that helps you feel better, or and if it didn’t work, then-
Carlos Lopez: You move on.
Tim Pickett: You move on.
Carlos Lopez: I mean, that’s just the way it works. That’s the rules of logic, or nature of the law, however you want to say it, or put it. I’m just grateful for not just the platform but seeing how far Utah has come. It’s made me, at least happy. I know there’s a lot of people that aren’t happy and I get also DM’s of that, too. Don’t get it like it’s all sunshine, don’t get it twisted.
Chris Holifield: Do people DM you?
Tim Pickett: Oh yeah, they’re-
Carlos Lopez: Absolutely.
Chris Holifield: What kind of stuff? I mean, they think cannabis should be illegal?
Carlos Lopez: I’m mental. I’m getting bamboozled, you’re getting ripped off. Dah, de, dah, dah.
Chris Holifield: Okay, I didn’t know-
Carlos Lopez: So it all comes down to the price.
Chris Holifield: If they were saying-
Carlos Lopez: It all honestly comes down to not just the price, but I also understand and I can express their frustrations in a sense that I do think we need more cultivators. Eight isn’t enough, for our state. And seeing the new magazine, which is awesome by the way, by Cole. Shout out to Cole.
Chris Holifield: Faces, yeah-
Carlos Lopez: Awesome, Salt Baked City magazine, a beautiful layout showing all the pharmacies labeling on the addresses, numbers. But it’s not enough. What about all those rural areas, what about them?
Chris Holifield: Yeah.
Tim Pickett: It really is, like I’ve been thinking about Justice in St. George. They’re going to open in a couple of months.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I heard that? 4/20 maybe?
Tim Pickett: There’s going to be one… Oh, if they make it to… They’ve got a lot of work to do. Shout out to those guys, though. They could pull it off. But they’re the only place. You’ve got to buy there, or you’ve got to go up to Bloom and Cedar City.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah.
Tim Pickett: Who will open about the same time. I mean these are… There isn’t another industry that you would have that limited stock.
Carlos Lopez: No, not at all.
Chris Holifield: Well, St. George’s is full of old people so I imagine they’re all going to get their card.
Carlos Lopez: Definitely.
Chris Holifield: You’d think, right?
Tim Pickett: The more it gets legitimized the better it will be. And I think-
Carlos Lopez: That’s my hope. That’s my hope. And that’s what I get knocked down on all the time, too is because-
Tim Pickett: Really?
Carlos Lopez: Depends on when they’re like, “You need to put more pressure on so and so.” And I get that. You do need to do your part, but you can do easy things, like make some emails, make phone calls. We call could do that.
Tim Pickett: Sure and you’re not going to get it all the way.
Carlos Lopez: No, you’re never going to get your cake and eat it, too. Right, it’s all in good time. That’s my optimism is, in good time. I didn’t even think Utah would be legal, that I could be doing this right now. Like 32, 2020, I never thought this would happen. Even thinking back when I I visited all of our neighboring states, Cali, Colorado, that’s my favorite, that’s priceless. Oregon, New Mexico, Arizona. I’ve been all over just around us and everyone’s got their own sweet pieces of the pie, but Utah’s done something uncovering these extra cannabinoids.
Carlos Lopez: We could really do something here and changing I think the whole market as far as the medical industry.
Tim Pickett: Have you been watching that?
Carlos Lopez: Absolutely.
Tim Pickett: Compared to other states that are surrounding us, and this is something I guess I haven’t paid a lot of attention to is, are other states focusing on the medicinal qualities of the other cannabinoids.
Carlos Lopez: No, it’s just Utah.
Chris Holifield: Colorado’s more of a rec state.
Carlos Lopez: Correct.
Chris Holifield: They’re just saying, “Just sell THC. Just sell THC.”
Carlos Lopez: Well, between you, I love your and Blake’s show, I’m on that, on it like bonnet. Honestly I can’t get enough of it.
Chris Holifield: That’s a great show by the way.
Carlos Lopez: It’s amazing.
Tim Pickett: Thanks, it’s really fun to produce and we feel like it’s getting a little bit better as we go. And for listeners who don’t what it is, its Discover Marijuana on YouTube and it’s Blake Smith, from Zion Medicinal who is a bioanalytical chemist, knows a lot about the details.
Carlos Lopez: Oh yeah, he’s a cool guy.
Tim Pickett: He’s like the mad scientist, and I’m trying to make sense of it all, bring it back to usable-
Carlos Lopez: You’re awesome.
Tim Pickett: Usable info. But it’s a fun place for people to go, get more info, like legitimate. We talk about the good and the bad.
Carlos Lopez: Right, that’s what I like You guys do always bring the truth with what’s happening, not just with the plant but other… Shine a light with the laws and stuff and making sure we’re in the know’s and the now’s and being safe and things like that.
Tim Pickett: Right.
Carlos Lopez: Utah’s a little different than other medical states, that’s for sure.
Chris Holifield: Oh, yeah.
Carlos Lopez: Way different, shall I say.
Chris Holifield: But you know what though? The more I learn about these other states, I find out that there’s some other states with goofy stuff, too.
Tim Pickett: I know, we were talking about Florida.
Chris Holifield: Yeah, Florida.
Tim Pickett: Talking about how they were trying to limit the-
Carlos Lopez: THC.
Tim Pickett: … percentage of THC to 10%.
Chris Holifield: Yeah, I heard about that. I was like, “Get out of here.”
Carlos Lopez: Crazy.
Tim Pickett: And then in Georgia, the law that they’re working on now will allow people to buy two weeks worth of flower, that’s it. You can buy a two weeks supply and then you have to… So you have to purchase a lot, which is hard for people who live far away from a pharmacy.
Chris Holifield: Yeah, who decides what’s two weeks supply? That’s the problem.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, exactly.
Chris Holifield: So back to you were mentioning how we need more than eight growers in Utah.
Carlos Lopez: Yes.
Chris Holifield: Did you run into, especially you’re a pretty heavy user of cannabis, or use it pretty regularly. Did you run into any problems with supply? I still run into problems with supply.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I do every day. I do. To this day, I run into problems with supply. Sometimes I’ll try some flower that I really find that meshes well with me, and then they won’t have it some days. And-
Chris Holifield: Or ever again.
Carlos Lopez: Or ever again, for that matter. “Oh, find us on the next batch, three or whatever months from now, or whatever.” Then obviously, I’m more concentrates, that’s my thing. As I love my concentrates, and I’m grateful with what we have now, but it just seems like we need so much more. Or it just needs to be so much more-
Chris Holifield: You need a lot more product to make more concentrate.
Carlos Lopez: And that’s what limiting the… It’s just all tying hand-in-hand where it’s just like…
Tim Pickett: Yeah, obviously it’s gotten better. As the cultivators have started growing a little bit more, the supply has gotten better.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, it has, but you’re choking the chicken where you’ve got to feed the geese, kind of thing. Well, excuse my language.
Tim Pickett: No, no. But you’re-
Carlos Lopez: I just wish there was more, I think would allow them to focus on longer growth than turning over these 60 day grows, which I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with. They’ve helped me, but they could be getting so much more from the plant maturing more than these speed cycle things, which still work. I’m not knocking that.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, but they’re doing that because they feel like they have to.
Carlos Lopez: Right, they’re putting them in a corner, right, and I get their aspect, too. You are kind of-
Chris Holifield: Speed growing the weed?
Carlos Lopez: Right.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, shortening the…
Carlos Lopez: There are certain strains or genetics.
Chris Holifield: Now educate me. Is that not good to speed grow things?
Tim Pickett: It depends. You’re growing a cultivar that is going to be able to harvest fast because it’s going to be harvest, fast. Does that make sense? You’re growing a cultivar that you can harvest fast because of the quickness with which you can harvest it. That’s the only reason you’re picking that strain.
Carlos Lopez: Or what’s going to yield the most.
Tim Pickett: Or yield, and in the long run, that doesn’t work because that isn’t necessarily the best medicine.
Carlos Lopez: Or the best thing for the patient.
Tim Pickett: Right. It’s just the best thing for getting flower into the pharmacies right now.
Carlos Lopez: Right.
Tim Pickett: And to your point, Carlos, the idea of more growers isn’t necessarily that we will have less profits. I think the industry looks at it that way. They think growers they want to protect their investment and they don’t want any more growers, they just want to grow their own. And on the one hand, you want them to build out their whole facilities and be in full production before you make that decision. On the other hand-
Carlos Lopez: But then they’re going to have so much of a head start on the other guys that are just trying to build up as they are now, too. So why not give everyone a shot all at the same time, and as things progress?
Tim Pickett: And you would think that if these guys are growing and there’s 25,000 patients, as we approach 75,000, Utah will-
Carlos Lopez: Oh wow, is that right now?
Tim Pickett: No. But I’m just saying, in the future we have 25,000 legal patients right now.
Carlos Lopez: Wow, even that’s remarkable. Wasn’t it only like a third of that, or a fourth of that, what they projected?
Tim Pickett: Yeah. And there’s differing-
Chris Holifield: Don’t ask Rich that.
Tim Pickett: Don’t ask Rich that, because he’ll be like, “Well, we didn’t maybe-
Carlos Lopez: Maybe half?
Tim Pickett: Or whatever, but I’ve heard 6,000. They projected 6,000 for the first little while-
Carlos Lopez: Oh gosh, that’s ridiculous.
Tim Pickett: And 16,000 the first year, and we’re 10,000 more than that. We’ve really… I think we’ve done well. And the Department of Health likes that there’s a lot of patients and I think that’s important for the whole program, that there’s a lot of patients.
Carlos Lopez: It’s growing.
Chris Holifield: But if you can’t supply them, what good is it?
Carlos Lopez: True.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, so as we approach, they’re doing 500 cards a week at the state.
Carlos Lopez: Wow.
Tim Pickett: So they’re increasing by a couple of 1,000 a month. If you extrapolate that out, if we’re short on supply now, we may continue to be short on supply.
Carlos Lopez: Especially when that number that just gets bigger. As we only have these eight to work with, I see where you’re going with this. It doesn’t look good. It’s almost like what I’m thinking up here.
Tim Pickett: That’s the argument I’m making-
Carlos Lopez: At least for patients and availability of the product.
Tim Pickett: I don’t know that that’s the truth, I’m just bringing that up. It does seem like if you’re short now, and granted these guys aren’t up and totally up and running fully.
Carlos Lopez: Fully.
Tim Pickett: But we’re 25,000 patients now, and we’re growing quickly.
Chris Holifield: And where are we going to be in 2022?
Carlos Lopez: And it’s only getting quicker because of the system.
Tim Pickett: Right. And the system is getting better and better.
Carlos Lopez: More efficient.
Tim Pickett: And as more and more people realize it’s a legitimate medicine, that will only increase the size of the system faster.
Chris Holifield: People are still finding out it’s even legal here in Utah.
Carlos Lopez: That’s the weird part.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, come in every day. Every day to our clinic. Every single day. They’re like, “I just found out this was legal last week.” And you’re like, “Where have you been? I was waiting for this day 10 years ago. You know what I mean? I’ve been counting these days.”
Carlos Lopez: That’s so funny. You guys are ahead of the curve, honestly.
Chris Holifield: Yeah.
Carlos Lopez: You are, you are ahead of me. On my card, I’m patient 30,000 plus later. Where the heck was… I should have been 300 or less. I should have been in the at no, that now.
Tim Pickett: In the beginning. No. you should have known.
Chris Holifield: That was a pretty cool day, I was actually at the Dragonfly opening. Dude, that first day-
Carlos Lopez: Oh with Mario, Mariojuana.
Chris Holifield: I didn’t go in.
Carlos Lopez: Oh, he’s episode two, I’ve heard.
Chris Holifield: I didn’t go into the dispensary, I was just there when they did the ribbon cutting. It was such, I mean goosebumps man, just because I was like, “Wow, we have this. This is pretty neat.”
Tim Pickett: It was intense.
Carlos Lopez: It was surreal.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, they’re going to do a big 4/20-
Carlos Lopez: Oh, I just can’t imagine they did the one year anniversary, which was huge. I just can’t imagine what they’ve got in store.
Tim Pickett: They’re going to put up a big event. Big announcements coming out of there.
Carlos Lopez: That will be exciting.
Tim Pickett: April 20.
Chris Holifield: So this is a question that I ask quite a few patients that come on here, Carlos, is what would you tell somebody, I would imagine people are listening that are still on the fence about trying medical cannabis, medical marijuana. Would you give them any advice or suggestions or words of assurance to put their mind at ease? Like hey, I don’t know…
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, definitely. I would say, “don’t be afraid.” It’s a natural, alternative medicine, with its endocannabinoid system that I’ve been learning about and our bodies that naturally have a cannabinoid system, we’re just a perfect match. We’re made for each other in a sense. And I don’t want to get all philosophical or into that, it’s just like it’s a so much better alternative to take that leap. For me, I waited a year and I went through pain, and I went through suffering and I went through things that I shouldn’t have, longer than I shouldn’t have, should I been lack of knowledge or education about this plant. It would have avoided all that suffering, all that time that I spent bedridden, and unmotivated and away from my family.
Chris Holifield: Yeah, “Give me my life back. I want my life back.” I understand.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I don’t want to make it seem like it’s the unicorn of all things, because for some people it doesn’t work, either.
Chris Holifield: Yeah.
Carlos Lopez: For the vast majority of us, it works. And the proof is in the pudding. Numbers don’t lie.
Tim Pickett: People should take advantage of the education-
Carlos Lopez: That’s the biggest gap.
Tim Pickett: … you can find online.
Carlos Lopez: Or disconnect.
Tim Pickett: Information that you can find now online and with friends and with things like this podcast and take advantage of what you didn’t have in 2005, and what we now-
Carlos Lopez: At our disposal, like technology.
Tim Pickett: …are building, right? This intro into the legitimacy of something that may help you.
Carlos Lopez: Oh, I think it will. I mean this is not just for myself I can personally speak, but I’ve seen this help from family members, from my grandma, from my aunt, from my sister. I’ve seen this.
Chris Holifield: So it’s helped out family members, too.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, absolutely. It’s not just me. I think this is better than reaching for that medicine cabinet and grabbing the aspirin and grabbing the Ibuprofen and grabbing the pain pill, or grabbing the… You know what I mean? Whatever it is that’s a pharmaceutical. And I’m not saying all pharmaceuticals are bad, because they have their purpose in their own way. But this plant, cannabis, is just a life saver in my eyes. It’s drastically changed my life for the better, that I don’t know, I can’t be grateful enough. I’d be dead if it wasn’t for cannabis.
Chris Holifield: Dude, I’m glad we got you on the show. I’m glad. Thank you for coming and recording with us.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah.
Tim Pickett: It’s definitely our pleasure.
Carlos Lopez: No, you’re welcome man. I appreciate you guys. I learned a lot from your podcast and like you were saying, Utah, I’m probably saying it wrong, but the utahmarijuana.org, that’s awesome. Very knowledgeable, educational and it really gives me something to look forward to, every week. I’m always stoked to tune in, “Hey, what’s Tim and Blake doing?”
Tim Pickett: Yeah, what’s the-
Carlos Lopez: What are we going to learn today?
Tim Pickett: What are we going to listen to on the podcast?
Carlos Lopez: What’s going to be on Chris’ podcast this time? Who’s going to be the guest? Is it the hemp or is it the pharmacy guy or the High Times magazine CEO lady, or Mario back here, working, doing his thing? It’s just coming from so many different parts of the world and dynamics, it’s been exciting for me to be a part of. That’s what I like.
Carlos Lopez: We tear each other down so much, we need to lift each other up more often. And I think being in the cannabis community is part of that. Lifting one another up, not being in the negative and just focusing on the bad. But at the same time, you don’t want to be ignorant. We want to try to make change for the better.
Carlos Lopez: So that’s why I was getting on the whole limited cultivator thing.
Tim Pickett: Right.
Carlos Lopez: Because I wish that was double.
Chris Holifield: Yeah, it will get there. Rich was even saying, “Let’s see what happens. Get all these up and going, everything up and going, all the shops up and going, all the growers up and going.” But I’m afraid it will be like the I-15 construction. It’s not like they didn’t attack it soon enough, so it was just… We grew too fast, there was all these construction zones. So why not just make enough dispensaries or pharmacies open now, for the projected growth is what I see.
Tim Pickett: Yeah.
Chris Holifield: Anyway.
Carlos Lopez: No, I think you’re right. Us Utahns-
Chris Holifield: We like to wait.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, in general, I know we’re a conservative state. Obviously, we get that rap all the time. Salt Lake City, I think is going to show that we are willing to change for the better and wanting this hip medicine that’s just going to make us feel better and heal. That’s going to ripple throughout the state, but it seems like everything’s so focused in on us, the county and… Everyone deserves to feel good. No one should be put in that position to have to choose, “Do I need to take this pain pill? Or, do I need to be dying for the next hours?”
Tim Pickett: Right.
Carlos Lopez: With cannabis, you don’t have to worry about that. I’ve been able to take such a variety of… I’m not sure, obviously I don’t know if you’ve seen the Hygge, but they have those FSO pills. Those are freaking awesome. Those help my insomnia better than anything.
Chris Holifield: The RSO pills?
Carlos Lopez: No, no. The green ones, the extra strength.
Chris Holifield: The Dose?
Carlos Lopez: The Dose.
Chris Holifield: Yeah, Dose, okay.
Carlos Lopez: Those will dose you, for sure.
Chris Holifield: I should try those, yeah.
Carlos Lopez: The extra strength, those, because like I’ve said, I’ve done trial and error. Those were great. The strawberry orange ones is the next best go-to for me. The 500 milligram ones, the 50 milligram each per gummy, those ones also, those help my migraines and my insomnia. Those will help me go right out and sleep through the night. That’s the key. I just wasn’t able to sleep all the times through the night. Wake up, toss and turning, hours, maybe sleep an hour, wake up in an hour kind of thing. But those will actually let me rest all the way like a normal 6-8, sometimes longer if I’m really feeling woozy and I want to live it up, go all wild.
Chris Holifield: Living on the edge. Get a couple of extra hours of sleep.
Carlos Lopez: But between… and it’s like you said, discreet, low key, medicating. I don’t have to smell like flower if I need to be somewhere I… We still live in a state that-
Tim Pickett: Professional.
Carlos Lopez: Right, right. And there’s a stigma, unfortunately, with this plant still. It’s just the way it is. And hopefully in time, I think that will change, but you don’t want to be walking around, sometimes when you’re around corporate execs smell like flower, like I’ll tell you that, like cannabis flower. But that’s where I do have… I’m able to take those at the full spectrum, extra dose cannabis capsules. Or I have recently experimented with the RSO ones.
Carlos Lopez: As a matter of fact-
Chris Holifield: The RSO capsules. I saw those, I was wondering how those work?
Carlos Lopez: Because I was supposed to take my dose, but yeah these. I don’t know if it’s okay or not.
Chris Holifield: Yeah.
Carlos Lopez: But yeah, it’s these ones. You know which ones are good, too? I don’t know if you want to check them out?
Chris Holifield: I haven’t had… I’ve seen pictures. I haven’t seen the actual-
Tim Pickett: No, I haven’t seen the bottle itself.
Carlos Lopez: They honestly, the green ones are bitter, I’ll be honest. They’re more effective. These ones are little bit more of a light punch for me, but that’s good, because sometimes I don’t always need that heavy hitting one that’s going to put me out for the night. I don’t need that. Want one that’s going to be a little more mild but still takes what I need away, that pain, let me function.
Carlos Lopez: Oh sorry.
Tim Pickett: Oh, you’re good. You’re good.
Carlos Lopez: But just being able to function and think straight. I love those capsules. The gummies like you said. I’ve done a lot of trial and error there. I’m not a fan of the 100 milligram Tryke ones. I tried them. I tried all 10, there was nothing happened.
Chris Holifield: All 10 at one time?
Carlos Lopez: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris Holifield: It didn’t do anything for you?
Carlos Lopez: Nothing at all. I tried the Tryke it was the apple Indica THC ones. So it was like, “I’m not getting this again.” Hopefully they come out with another more potent one.
Chris Holifield: That’s what I’m excited for is as 2021 and going into 2022, is to see the products that are coming out.
Carlos Lopez: Oh yeah, even a year ago, you’ve had a patient going back a year.
Tim Pickett: Yeah.
Carlos Lopez: I’m sure the whole menu is like night and day going back this time of year.
Tim Pickett: Oh, yeah. I remember going into Dragonfly and there were four options. And then there were three, because then you could buy tincture. And that was pretty much all you could buy.
Carlos Lopez: Actually I was going to cover that with you because tinctures is one thing I’ve tried that at least for what I deal with, specifically, it’s the perfect dosing. Like you said, you can precision dosing, but I don’t get that pain from my bud that I need, because I need that stronger-
Tim Pickett: Stronger yes. So for somebody like you, you need 1000 milligrams of THC in one vial. And now, you’re buying 250 milligrams THC in one vial. It’s just a matter of time until that product comes-
Carlos Lopez: And I’m sure.
Tim Pickett: Really what you need is a nano emulsified THC oil that has 1,000 milligrams in that one 30 ml bottle. That’s going to absorb faster, it’s going to be more potent and it’s going to be affordable. Something like that would be affordable for somebody with a relatively high tolerance.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, at that point, but it’s just where with it’s at now, it doesn’t seem that it, with the tinctures and the prices and where the dose is, it’s just… like I said, I just don’t get that. But like you said, in due time.
Tim Pickett: Yeah. This is a real balance for the marketplace, because most users are going to be on the low end of tolerance, where five or 10 milligrams of THC is plenty. And for somebody who needs 50, 60, 70 milligrams at a dose, the cost per milligram of THC comes into play.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, so you’re not on the same playing field, really.
Tim Pickett: So really, let’s say 80% of the patients in Utah need that low, low dose. So most of the products-
Carlos Lopez: It’s going to be tailored towards them.
Tim Pickett: Yeah.
Carlos Lopez: That makes sense.
Tim Pickett: All the products you see are more tailored toward that intro medical user. And that’s why your concentrates need to come. They’re for people who have a higher tolerance and people who have more serious conditions, too. They’re necessary, there’s just fewer patients in that space.
Carlos Lopez: I appreciate you explaining it like that, because that does help put it in perspective, for me. That paints the picture for me. I’m excited as we go, fast forward the clock, five years down the road, to see… because we’re big on pharmaceuticals in general, Utah. We’re known for pain pills and opioids.
Carlos Lopez: No, it’s not a good thing.
Tim Pickett: No, we’re getting on the bandwagon though with alternative medicine.
Carlos Lopez: Right.
Tim Pickett: We’re one of the biggest states for essential oils, too. So you could see that the state could get onboard. The state could be-
Chris Holifield: I’m actually surprised how many people are onboard though. I saw on Facebook about a week ago, I’m this Utah County Facebook group, and they were complaining about the Springville dispensary opening up. There was a couple of people but then all these people saying how great it was. I was like, “This is great for Utah. A couple of moms getting all, ‘Oh, this is going to bring down our home value.'”
Chris Holifield: That’s what they were concerned about, bringing down their home value.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, the community.
Chris Holifield: Yeah, they’re like, “Oh is this dispensary gonna bring down -”
Carlos Lopez: Going to ruin our kids.
Chris Holifield: And blah, blah, blah. But I was actually surprised on how many… There’s a lot of people in this state that are actually onboard.
Tim Pickett: And willing to be vocal.
Chris Holifield: With cannabis, because of the creams and stuff like that. I think it’s because the way we’ve approached it, with vape only, no flame. So we’ve taken away all that trashy cannabis look, right?
Tim Pickett: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris Holifield: Because that’s how most people look at the joint, and see that little guy.
Carlos Lopez: That’s the stigma is the bong, deal with the dreads, the reggae.
Chris Holifield: There’s nothing wrong with that. I love all that, too. But that’s not all there is to the medicine.
Carlos Lopez: No, not at all.
Tim Pickett: Like I was saying earlier. When you’re introducing this to a population that is mostly conservative, if you can do it in the right way, then you can get buy in and we can create a better program in the end, but we’re going to have to live with the bumps.
Carlos Lopez: That’s just life, right. You’ve got to take the good with the bad. And that’s where I’m trying to stay optimistic. Just hang in there. We never thought we’d even be 35th or whatever it was medical. So you know what, God bless me. Let’s just keep on riding. We’ve got to just do it. Take the nitty gritty with it.
Tim Pickett: Oh, go ahead.
Carlos Lopez: I was just going to say that’s why I was excited about the five years from now to see our case study with… I was excited to see where the opioid drop is and not just the drop but the deaths, there’s people dying out here now, because of this thing.
Tim Pickett: Hundreds still.
Carlos Lopez: It’s not a joke. It’s like being more than traffic accidents, almost.
Tim Pickett: I don’t know the comparison, but I think there were 463 opioid deaths in 2018.
Carlos Lopez: Oh, God.
Tim Pickett: Was the latest number.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, that’s awful.
Tim Pickett: That’s a lot.
Carlos Lopez: It’s one too many.
Chris Holifield: Can listeners, how can they connect with you? What’s your Instagram again?
Carlos Lopez: Oh yeah, it’s just my name. So @C_a_r_l_o_s_Lopez.
Chris Holifield: Any spaces or anything?
Carlos Lopez: I do have. I have underscore. So it’s a little complicated. It’s C_A_R_L_O_S and then Lopez, L-O-P-E-Z. I know that’s-
Chris Holifield: Is Lopez underscored?
Carlos Lopez: No, it’s one solid. L-O-P-E-Z.
Chris Holifield: Okay.
Carlos Lopez: So just Carlos is underscored.
Tim Pickett: So if you’re looking for Carlos, you can go to utahmarijuana.org Instagram and just look to the comments, you’ll find him.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah, usually-
Tim Pickett: That’s probably the easiest way to find him.
Chris Holifield: No, but I love it. I love how active you are on there, man.
Carlos Lopez: I appreciate that.
Tim Pickett: It’s important for us to keep people engaged. And we really appreciate it. We really do.
Carlos Lopez: Well, thank you guys. That means a lot.
Chris Holifield: You bet.
Carlos Lopez: Because I love you guys.
Chris Holifield: Thanks, man.
Carlos Lopez: Watching your show, this is a beauty on cannabis. I never would have reached these relationships of, even being able to sit here and do this. I’m just, that’s what I’m saying, I’m very grateful for this medicine and our program.
Chris Holifield: We’re grateful, too.
Carlos Lopez: And you guys, like the platform. This is amazing. You make it seem like you said, it’s legitimized and it’s respectable, you guys are professional about what you do and the way you go about it and the way you educate patients and keep us knowledged. And in the know of the laws. I love it. I can’t get enough of it. I just want to learn more. I appreciate you guys. Like it really means a lot to me. Thank you.
Chris Holifield: Perfect place to end the show, I think.
Tim Pickett: Absolutely.
Chris Holifield: Thank you again, for coming and recording with us. I can’t urge people enough to go follow you on Instagram, connect with you, send you a message. Send Carlos a message, say, “Hey, I heard you on I Am Salt Lake.” Not I Am Salt Lake, that’s my other…. Say, “I heard you on Utah In The Weeds.” That’s my other podcast.
Carlos Lopez: Yeah.
Chris Holifield: Listen to that podcast, too.
Tim Pickett: You’ve been doing that one a long time. Eight and a half years.
Chris Holifield: Something like that.
Carlos Lopez: I need to get on that one more. I’ll be honest with you. I haven’t as much.
Chris Holifield: That’s how I met Tim.
Tim Pickett: Yeah, when you’re in to the cannabis scene, you’ve got a cannabis podcast here. When you’re into the Salt Lake scene, the Utah scene, you’ve got I Am Salt Lake. We’ve got it all covered here. We’re local, Chris is local.
Carlos Lopez: I love it.
Chris Holifield: Anything else you want to add, Tim?
Tim Pickett: No. This has been fun, thanks Carlos. I appreciate you coming on.
Chris Holifield: Go to utahmarijuana.org/podcast is where you listen to all the previous podcasts, we should be in all the podcast apps. If we’re not in a podcast app that you use, reach out to Tim or myself and I will try my hardest to get us in there. Leave us a review in iTunes if you have it. I’m trying to think what else there is to say, any other…? Utahmarijuana.org is the hub.
Tim Pickett: That’s the hub and really it has the episodes as early as you can find them anywhere, right?
Chris Holifield: Yeah.
Tim Pickett: So all right guys, stay safe out there.
Chris and Tim’s guest, Brent, was the first employee brought on to help get Wasatch extraction up and running. His initial experience was a learn-as-you-go type of thing. Once they got up and running and brought more employees on board, Brent took the role of Lab Director.
Wasatch Extraction started in the hemp market; they are now in the medical market as well. Their biggest concern on the medical side is the lack of biomass. They do very little hemp right now because the money isn’t there. In order to expand the medical side of things, they are in the process of bringing in new equipment that will allow them to tap the rosin market.
In addition to having an extraction license, the company also has a tier 1 processing license. That enables them to make a number of finished products, including vaping carts. Wasatch Extraction makes their own branded carts as well as white label products for other brands.
Vape carts are the company’s bestseller right now. Brent called them ‘low hanging fruit’ because they are easy to make and use. However, Wasatch Extraction would really like to get into more concentrates. That’s where rosin comes in. No one is offering it in Utah right now.
Wasatch Extraction is looking to grow significantly in the next few years. But again, access to product is the main hindrance. Brent, Chris, and Tim all agreed that there needs to be a greater access on growing in Utah. More plants in the ground is the only way to solve the supply problem.
Episode 53 of Utah in the Weeds is a fascinating discussion for anyone interested in the happenings at a typical extraction and processing operation. This episode is jampacked with information you may not know.
Follow the podcast at UtahMarijuana.org, or leave us a message at (385) 215-9557.
Check out Chris Holifield’s other podcast, I am Salt Lake.
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Discover Marijuana.
Chris Holifield:
All right. Let’s welcome everybody out today to episode 53 of Utah in the Weeds. My name’s Chris Holifield.
Tim Pickett:
And I’m Tim Pickett, a QMP in Utah and a medical cannabis expert, so to speak. Pretty excited about the interview today Chris, with an extractor in Utah.
Chris Holifield:
Yeah. Brent, the Lab Director at Wasatch Extraction. And for people that don’t know, in Wasatch Extraction, they make all the carts here in Utah pretty much. Right? I don’t think there’s any place else that makes carts in Utah.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. I mean, I think there’s a couple of other vertically integrated places that are making up their own carts. Like I think Dragonfly does, or Zion does. When you have these processors, they have to get product from Tryke, or from one of the other growers. And then they process it into these products that we love and they make, Wasatch Extraction is making some medicine that is really top-notch.
Chris Holifield:
And then they’re doing the Fruit of Life carts as well. So we talk a little bit about that in this conversation, which was really cool to kind of put some of the pieces together.
Tim Pickett:
Right? Just another interview to put the pieces together, to get to know all of the different brands in Utah, all of the different processes that you’re getting your medicine. And if you’re interested in becoming a patient in Utah, like knowing essentially seed to sale. Right? Where your medicine comes from, which is something you can’t do with normal pharmaceuticals. So it’s a good educational and cultural interview, I thought.
Chris Holifield:
Also I want to mention Tim. I know we didn’t talk about this before we started recording, but I want to make a little send out or a request to people. If you know, of any 420 events going on, to send that into Tim or I. I know you and I we’re going to collect some of the events and whatnot and talk about it next week on the podcast, but let’s… Hey, if anybody knows of any, reach out to Tim or myself. Let us know, so we can talk about it on the podcast as well.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. Stay tuned, next week we’ll have all of those local events, we’ll have details about what’s going on at the different pharmacies and the big events. It’s a fun month. It’s not only a recreational holiday, or an adult use holiday, but I think that it’s becoming a big deal, even nationwide to celebrate the cannabis movement in medical or adult use, whatever you’re into.
Chris Holifield:
And I’m trying to think, there was something… Oh, utahmarijuana.org/podcast. Go listen to all the episodes there. I’m sure there’s a couple that you haven’t listened to. So go check them out, make sure you’re subscribed in whatever app you listen to podcasts in. Should we get into the podcast, or the interview?
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. Let’s do.
Chris Holifield:
Tim, anything else want to talk about?
Tim Pickett:
Nope, let’s get into it.
Chris Holifield:
All right. Here’s that with Brent, from Wasatch Extraction. Enjoy. Well, let’s start with Wasatch Extraction, man. How did you get involved with Wasatch Extraction?
Brent:
Well, the owner, or one of the owners Steve [Gasdes 00:03:13], me and him go way back to high school. So we were just buddies causing trouble back in the day and he got the opportunity to get the license. He wanted to get a grill and a dispensary license as well, but we got the extraction license. So we started there and then I had some experience in the cannabis industry, but just a little bit. And so he was like, “Hey, do you want to help me start this thing up?” So I jumped on board and super grateful.
Chris Holifield:
And you’re the lab director there, right?
Brent:
Lab director.
Chris Holifield:
So what exactly is that like, what’s your day to day? What are you doing there?
Brent:
Right. Well, basically I was employee number one coming on and I was there for myself for like the first nine months. The first year we were just doing CBD. And I hadn’t ever done CO2 extraction or used a rotovap or a short path before. So it was really, a little bit intimidating coming on because this equipment shows up and you’re like, “Oh man, that might be out of my league.” But it’s just like anything else, you do it a hundred times and you’re like, “Oh I get it.”
Brent:
So just basically, and then once we started to pick up a little more, we got some employees on board. Basically, I mostly run the post-processing after the initial extraction, I guess I run the CO2 machines, but generally we’re doing ethanol right now. So we have Tyson and Gareth doing ethanol for us. And then I’m upstairs in the upper lab doing the rotovap, or the winterizing ,or short path, or I do some HPLC stuff as well.
Chris Holifield:
A lot of things going over my head right here.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. I followed you to ethanol. Right?
Brent:
Right.
Tim Pickett:
I know what that is. And I know it goes away when the product comes out the door.
Brent:
Yes.
Tim Pickett:
Right.
Brent:
If you’re doing it right. It does. Yeah.
Tim Pickett:
But then you’re talking about, is this all still hemp CBD processing, or now you’re in the medical market.
Brent:
We’re in the medical market. Yep. We’re lucky enough to get that license as well. And then partner with some farmers or I guess you can be partners with the farmers.
Chris Holifield:
License?. What license, like grow license or just a processing-
Brent:
No, just the extraction license.
Chris Holifield:
Extraction license.
Brent:
But you have to be GMP certified and all that stuff to do medical marijuana. And then you got to go through, because I think we’re the only facility in the state that actually can do both CBD and THC under the same roof. But we did have to go through certain precautions to make sure there was no cross-contamination and stuff like that. Gave that plan to the state, have it approved. But the first year we were just doing CBD. So it was great for me because I got to really dial everything in. And now that we’re doing marijuana, we’re not really doing much CBD right now because the price per liters drop so much, it’s really not worth the labor and the chemicals and stuff like that. So we’ve shifted full-time over to THC. But it has slowed the pace quite a bit because as you know, there’s a lack of-
Tim Pickett:
Like product biomass-
Brent:
Flower and biomass and stuff like that in the state right now.
Tim Pickett:
Describe that a little bit so that people understand, because there are companies like Wholesome, who have a license to go all the way from seed to sale. Right?
Brent:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim Pickett:
And there are some companies who just have grow licenses and then they have to find other people. So where are you getting the product?
Brent:
Right. Right now we are mostly getting it from Tryke right now, but they’re so spread thin. They can only give us so much. We were working with Oakbridge quite a bit to get stuff from them. And they, I haven’t been to many facilities, but they have a massive facility going up North. And so they’ve basically decided to focus on just going all the biomass and extraction. So they aren’t really doing too much smokable. So they, and Tyler really knows what he’s doing, I don’t know if you know about Oakbridge, but they have nurseries and stuff like that. He grew up just growing things. So he has a green thumb. Obviously marijuana is very different, so it takes a while to understand its particular needs and stuff like that. They are cranking out a ton of biomass, but I think they’re trying to start an extraction themselves. So we’ve shifted to, Tri-C basically, long story short.
Chris Holifield:
I want to back up a little bit, you were mentioning how you had prior experience with cannabis before getting into this. Earlier in the conversation, do you care to share anything about that? Like, was it here in Utah or out of state or were you growing or what were you doing —
Brent:
It was in California, just some small scale grows. Nothing crazy. And then I was doing bubble hash for the shops out there.
Chris Holifield:
Bubble hash?
Brent:
Small time though. So Bubble hash, it’s making a comeback, which I love. It’s a solventless extraction, so basically you just freeze the biomass, tumble around in some ice water, knock all the trichomes free, and some other compounds and stuff like that and throw it through a series of bags. And you’re basically sifting through gold to find the particular grade that you’re looking for.
Chris Holifield:
That’s wonderful.
Tim Pickett:
That’s pretty cool, but solventless.
Brent:
That’s what I love about it. Yeah.
Tim Pickett:
That’s your favorite type of extraction or is there a place for everything?
Brent:
It’s not my favorite to do because it’s very manual, labor intensive because you’re bouncing bags. But it’s my favorite…
Tim Pickett:
Like end product.
Brent:
Yes. Well actually my favorite’s live rosin. Live rosin is basically just a heated press. And so you can put flower in there, but you’re not going to get a whole lot out for each press. But if you put bubble hash in there, it’s going squeeze it, ooze out, just tons of live rosin, that’s my favorite stuff to use, I guess. And we’re ordering all the equipment for that very soon. So we’ll be bringing that to the patients. Nobody here in Utah is doing it at the moment that I’m aware of.
Tim Pickett:
No, there’s no live rosin anywhere.
Brent:
No.
Tim Pickett:
Trust me. We would know.
Brent:
Right.
Tim Pickett:
Everybody would know.
Brent:
Yep. Yep.
Tim Pickett:
There’s been a little bit of dry or hash, is it hash resin?
Brent:
Like bubble hash or?
Tim Pickett:
Yeah.
Brent:
Yeah. They call it bubble hash because if you do it right, and you hold a lighter up to it, it bubbles and sizzles.
Tim Pickett:
Interesting.
Brent:
Yeah. Or if not, it just burns like a piece of charcoal. Like plant matter in there and stuff like that.
Chris Holifield:
I love talking about stuff like that because a lot of times you hear it out and about right, tut you’re like, “I don’t know what this means.” A lot of the terminology and I know a lot of people that listen to this are newbies when it comes to cannabis. So it’s like, I want to educate them when it comes to the different, different terms and words. So they’re not intimidated when they’re going into the pharmacies because I know how it is a lot of times. I mean, it wasn’t even for me, the first time I ever went into my first legal dispensary in Colorado. Man, I was so intimidated. I was like, “I don’t know if I know all the right lingo here.”
Brent:
Right.
Tim Pickett:
Lingo. You don’t know if you’re allowed to talk to somebody. I need to just stay quiet. Or it’s you stand in line?
Chris Holifield:
Yeah
Brent:
We used to go into head shops. And if you said the wrong language…
Chris Holifield:
You know, get out of here.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. They be like, “You’re out for this.”. Right.
Chris Holifield:
This is for smoking tobacco.
Brent:
Exactly.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah, it is. Yeah. Maybe we’re peoples safe place to learn about things like that.
Chris Holifield:
I wanted to, yeah.
Brent:
Yeah. People need them.
Tim Pickett:
They really do.
Brent:
Absolutely.
Tim Pickett:
Okay. Your focus, what’s Wasatch Extraction doing mostly now, as far as the extraction process and making products, labeling, getting it out the door?
Brent:
So not only do we have the extraction license, but we also have a tier one processing license, which allows us to formulate and package. That gives us the ability to mix the distillate, or whatever that end product is. Not end product, but an end extraction product, mix it into tinctures, formulate in the lotions or put it into vape cartridges, add terps if you want. Stuff like that, and then package. So basically box and label.
Tim Pickett:
I can bring you a cannabis plant that’s dried and ready and tested. And then you can take that plant and make it into pretty much whatever I need.
Brent:
Absolutely.
Tim Pickett:
That’s kind of what Wasatch Extraction is all about.
Brent:
Yeah. We bridge a lot of gaps because like you were saying earlier, you have the farmers or the people to grow, licensed in the dispensary’s, but we’re the people that are the go-between. I believe True North got it, tier one as well. And they’re trying to keep it everything pretty much in-house. Other brands are actually loving our distillate so much that they’re basically co-branding.
Tim Pickett:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. White label, or co-branding and stuff like that. They bring their recipe to you and then they say, “Hey, make this recipe, put our label on it.”
Brent:
Exactly.
Tim Pickett:
I see.
Brent:
And actually they love our recipe so much. They’re like, “Put that in here and we’ll tweak it a little bit to make it ours.” Because, everybody wants their own personal touch on everything, which is great. And then yeah, we put it into their cartridges and it goes out and what people would know…
Chris Holifield:
Kind of like, we’re in the Fruit of Life shop, for example, you fill their carts up. Right? Is that kind of…
Brent:
Well actually the Fruit is Life is a brand.
Chris Holifield:
Of Wasatch Extraction.
Brent:
Yes. It’s our own brand. Yeah.
Chris Holifield:
Yeah. I got you.
Tim Pickett:
Okay. That even adds another layer to it. So you can work for other process or other growers and process their product like Tryke and then get their stuff out and then you could do your own and brand it in Fruit of Life and put that out.
Brent:
Exactly. So we can actually buy biomass or plant matter or flower from the growers and we’re able to do our own brand from that, which is super amazing.
Tim Pickett:
That’s cool. And it makes it kind of complicated in the system because there’s a lot of those, there’s a lot of brands, even in the small marketplace that we have, it seems like there’s a lot of brands and then tracing that product back to the processor and then back to who actually grew the flower. I think a lot of people are interested in that and knowing where their stuff comes from?
Brent:
100%. Yeah. There’s a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that people are very unaware of. And some people, they want to know exactly where this came from, and source, all that stuff, which I like too. I like to kind of know where my stuff’s coming from, because there’s basically the facade that the packaging labeling isn’t. I started to realize this once I got into this industry like, “I don’t know, Doritos, they package for lots of other people, or they give their different recipes to other brands.” There’s these major processing facilities that you can go to with your recipe and say, “Hey, I want to make a product. Will you white label it for me?” And so it’s interesting.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. It’s like that in medical marijuana.
Brent:
Yeah. Yeah.
Tim Pickett:
What’s your favorite product or what seems to be the favorite product that you guys make right now? Do you think you have one?
Brent:
Yeah. The vape cartridges are the number one selling for sure.
Chris Holifield:
So you’re pretty much making everybody’s vape carts cartridges, no?
Brent:
No. That’s a very recent development that certain people have come to us and said, “Hey, we want to use your distillate and our vape cartridge.” There’s a lot of brands out there somehow making their own. They must have obviously a processing license.
Chris Holifield:
Okay.
Brent:
And I know other people are trying to get in and some people are working under our license. So they have to be at our facility. Certain brands come in, the Hygge. I think it’s Hygge, I’m so-
Chris Holifield:
Those little chews, the cubes.
Brent:
They are the economy king right now. They’re everywhere. And they were working out of our facility till just about a month ago.
Chris Holifield:
So you were processing those.
Brent:
Yeah. They were using our distillate and…
Chris Holifield:
Where did they go?
Brent:
That was Oakbridge as well. So they moved up, they finally built that part of their facility and moved down on up.
Chris Holifield:
Very cool.
Brent:
Yeah.
Chris Holifield:
Do you have a personal relationship with cannabis or, I mean, we don’t need to talk about that if you’d rather not, I was just curious from a personal relationship. I mean, if you’re a medical patient at all, or if anything like that?
Brent:
Not currently one here in the state of Utah, I have done previously in other States, but I mean I’ve loved the benefits of cannabis from an early age, junior high. And I definitely do not recommend younger people using cannabis early on. Wait till you’re more developed to do those things. I just experienced a lot of benefits personally. And I was like, “This thing can’t be bad, it does so many amazing things for me.” And so I’ve always just kind of been drawn to it and found work in the industries somehow. And I just love it.
Chris Holifield:
Very cool.
Tim Pickett:
That’s pretty cool. I think you fill in some of the gaps that we need to know about this whole system in Utah. Did any of the legal changes? Do you follow any of this that have changed in like the hemp laws, or the medical marijuana laws? Is anything going to change for you in 2021, that was different or is everything was pretty well set last year with the rules and not a ton has changed with the processing?
Brent:
To my knowledge, not a whole lot changed other than, I guess originally, extraction processes like BHO, we’re going to be off the-
Chris Holifield:
BHO — what is that?
Brent:
Butane extraction.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah.
Brent:
Or even bubble hash, I hear originally was not going to be possible. But those have come through, but that was last year in 2020.
Tim Pickett:
Oh yeah. That was the concentrates when they allowed. So originally, patients were not going to be allowed to access concentrates until they failed two other methods.
Brent:
Right.
Chris Holifield:
Fail two other methods of…
Brent:
Of ingestion.
Chris Holifield:
Of cannabis?
Tim Pickett:
So you could get flower, you could get vape carts, but you had to do that. And then let’s say your 90 day renewal, you were going to have to go back to your provider and say, “Hey, this is not working for me. I need access to concentrates.” And they changed that law right before things even got really going, to just allow people to work with their medical provider and decide what works best for them originally and just have access from day one. And that probably affected the processors a bit, because concentrates… Yeah. I mean, now it seems like there’s going to be a better market for concentrates and people will have more options. Right?
Brent:
Absolutely. And I know all the patients I’m asking for it, on the social medias and stuff like that, we’ve been asking like, “Hey, what do you guys need? What do you guys want?” Everybody’s like, “We want live rosin and we want bubble hash, or shatter or whatever” So we’d love to be able to offer that, so that’s cool.
Chris Holifield:
What has been a hold up with live rosin and whatnot?
Tim Pickett:
I’ve heard, it’s just the biomass. It’s the fact that you can’t get enough raw materials to make more than just vape carts. Right?
Brent:
Right.
Tim Pickett:
Vape cart sell, they’re selling out. They’re easy to make or, however hard they are to make, that’s all you have product to make,
Brent:
Right. That’s kind of the low hanging fruit. It’s a great delivery method because it’s easy for people, you just push a button, it tastes good, you get your medication. As you get to know cannabis a little better, you start looking for the purest methods and just the more enjoyable methods that give you the desired result.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. And that ends up being more concentrates and more availability. I don’t know, what’s your experience with concentrates?
Chris Holifield:
Zero.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah, mine too. I mean, I’ve experienced live rosin.
Chris Holifield:
So have I. I have experienced that.
Tim Pickett:
I will say from my experience, my personal experience, it is a different experience and it’s pretty amazing. The only way to describe it is like in something that you say or that people would understand was be the difference between the nicest bottle of wine you’ve ever drank and Three-Buck Chuck from Trader Joe’s.
Brent:
Right.
Chris Holifield:
You gave a good example probably here.
Tim Pickett:
I mean, there’s something about that, right? The table wine is fine and that’s good for everyday use it. It’s tasty, but there is just something about like, you don’t know what you’re experiencing until you drink that wine. And you’re like, “Oh wow, this is a lot better. I know why this is worth money.”
Brent:
Everything you want basically, and nothing you don’t want, flower itself has so many compounds going on in it. And as you extract things, you start to isolate and concentrate certain compounds, but you get rid of a lot of the other beneficial things like terpenes. You can add natural or synthetic food grade terpenes to your products. But I mean, as you were pointing to earlier, it’s a different experience of the live rosin. It’s just a slightly different experience than smoking flower or vaporizing flower. I personally love to vaporize flower because you get the full spectrum, basically. Nothing’s then extracted out, and also it’s solvent less. So it’s just pure, has all the flavor and it’s very potent. So it’s great experience.
Tim Pickett:
And I would say that like a live rosin for a medical patient, when you get into the concentrates, this is something that we don’t recommend people use all the time. It’s really from my medical standpoint.
Chris Holifield:
Why wouldn’t you want to use it all the time?
Tim Pickett:
Because, one, it’s expensive.
Chris Holifield:
Okay.
Tim Pickett:
Just like simple. Simply it’s going to be more expensive than it is to buy flower and it’s stronger. And so reserving that for your really bad days, or the few days after chemo, this is the type of thing that’s best for, in my opinion. And if you can use it in those settings, then it maintains its effectiveness more. And it’s kind of special place in the medical marijuana world. And from an adult use standpoint, it kind of is that same thing. You’re reserving it for those special occasions. It’s just like my analogy with the bottle of wine. I mean, you’re not going to open a hundred dollars bottle of wine every day. Right?
Brent:
Unless you can afford it.
Tim Pickett:
I mean, I guess if you can afford it, I’m not supposed to be…
Brent:
I’m coming to your house.
Tim Pickett:
But there may be a time and a place for that sort of thing. And I like your discussion about the flower. Here you are, you work for an extractor. Right? But I mean, some of the purest form of using cannabis is yeah, putting it right at 385 degrees and putting the old volcano at 385 and filing up a bag.
Chris Holifield:
And light and you hit the button and go.
Brent:
I love it.
Chris Holifield:
Yeah.
Brent:
You know, it’s all about finding where your tolerance is, and managing it to your benefit, like you were saying. If you’re doing this for pain, you don’t want to just have your tolerance for the roof, because you’ll be buying so much. And when you use it, it’s not going to have the same effects.
Tim Pickett:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Brent:
So you’re right. I mean, there’s a lot of different products out there and you got to figure out which one your body responds to for what.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. How many vape carts do you think you guys make a day?
Brent:
Oh man. Well…
Tim Pickett:
I mean, we’re talking hundreds.
Brent:
Well, so right now we’re actually hand filling each one.
Chris Holifield:
You’re kidding.
Tim Pickett:
Oh my Gosh.
Brent:
And hand topping each one.
Chris Holifield:
Okay. Let’s hear more about that.
Brent:
We are buying a…
Chris Holifield:
Like Tupperware pitcher?
Tim Pickett:
You’re like pouring…
Brent:
It’s like a glue gun with a heat, and you just basically —
Tim Pickett:
It’s like hot glue.
Brent:
Yeah. And we’ve got a little assembly line. We can crank out. I think our record might be like 1200 for the day. And that’s a very small crew. That’s as crew of three.
Chris Holifield:
You’re not doing like any nicotine carts, you’re doing all, all cannabis-related CBD, THC, medical. No nicotine.
Tim Pickett:
What are they mixing it with? This is an oil form, you’ve extracted all of the THC out of the plant, which is kind of a fatty molecule. It’s a fatty, oily substance. How do you describe the THC oil?
Brent:
It’s very sticky, but it looks like an oil that acts, I guess it is an oil, but it’s like, man, really high potency THC distillate turns to like jolly rancher almost really quick.
Tim Pickett:
Okay. Yeah. It almost crystallizes. So you have to mix it with something that will allow it to stay a viscous form.
Brent:
So CBD crystallizes which is why a lot of people aren’t putting it into carts. And if you find one, it definitely has some other stuff in there with it to keep it in solution. THC, we don’t have to do that necessarily because it doesn’t crystallize. So it just has to be hot when you put it in there. And then the heat element on the vape cart will actually heat it up and allow it to flow.
Tim Pickett:
So you don’t need to add anything to the THC oil. You can just put straight THC oil, like 90 something percent into the vape cart.
Brent:
You can. I would prefer that, but everybody wants things to taste delicious these days.
Tim Pickett:
It will taste good.
Brent:
Yeah. They want their cannabis that tastes like Skittles or something. So I prefer the earthy taste. And the thing is when you extract, you extract out a lot of those terpenes and so you’re going to get an end result that doesn’t taste like what you think it might, which is why, and it kind of blew my mind when I started doing this. I’m sure everybody’s adding terps. Whether it’s marijuana terps or synthesized terps.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. And this is what makes your, this is what makes it taste a little lemony or citrusy, or it makes it taste a little bit more well. And then you can design, like if you buy a Jack Herer vape cart, that’s not saying that it came from that plant, it’s meaning that the terpene profile of what that strain was, what the cultivar was, is what they put back in a recipe form in that. Super Sour Diesel is a very common one. There’s a lot of them.
Brent:
Oh yeah. And the thing is like, terpenes, they’re part of the beneficial effects. Certain terpenes are what’s going to give you that pain relief or other effects. And so a lot of people, or the connoisseurs, or whatever are looking for certain strains because they include these terpenes. And so that’s definitely, I think where the market eventually will be moved to, is like, what effects do I need? Or what benefits do I need and which strains or terpenes give me those? And you’ll actually start looking for those rather than just the flavor.
Tim Pickett:
And I think you’re starting to see that people are looking for those more than they’re looking for sativa/indica. You don’t go in there and say, “Well, one day.” I think a lot of people still do, but we move towards a time when you’re going to the dispensary or the pharmacy. And you’ll say, “Hey, I need something with beta caryophyllene and limonene. These are the two terps that I think are, are better for me. And so do you have something that has those.” Instead of going in and saying, “I need something that’s an upper or that’s good for this or down.” Right? You’ll get a little more dialed as to what specifically works. And that can be a lot of terpenes. So do they add terpenes? Is that make it more viscous?
Brent:
It does.
Tim Pickett:
Because the terpenes come in a more liquid form.
Brent:
Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. Some people are adding 10% or more terpenes, which is a lot. And again, if they’re marijuana grade terpenes, that might be highly beneficial. You definitely want to add marijuana terpenes over lab synthesized food grade terpenes, but in a way terpenes are terpenes, because the same, like you were saying limonene, you’re gonna find that in limes.
Tim Pickett:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Brent:
It’s the same actual compound or terpene, it’s also found in this plant too.
Chris Holifield:
Learn something every time I talk on it, or we record podcasts-
Tim Pickett:
We record this podcasts. I like this-
Chris Holifield:
Because I still find the indica-sativa thing interesting because I find it any sativa, way too much anxiety, so I always have to go to indica. But then people say that, that doesn’t matter.
Tim Pickett:
What does it smell like?
Chris Holifield:
What does it smell like? I have even no idea.
Tim Pickett:
Do you find that there’s a smell to the indica that you’re finding? Does the cannabis you use, tend to taste similar, like when you buy indica and I’ll bet over time…
Chris Holifield:
I think so. I guess I just don’t pay attention to that part of it.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. And I’ll bet over time, your cannabis smells more earthy, and you’re using more indica type terpenes, if that works for you. And you’re staying away from terpenes that are more associated with sativa.
Chris Holifield:
Yeah. Just because I find the sativa ones give me a lot more anxiety.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. Rebound headaches come with those sativa terpenes. Things like that.
Brent:
Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you know a lot about the terpenes.
Tim Pickett:
Well, we’re just learning so much more about them and trying to…
Brent:
Right. Which is great about you guys do. You guys get to sit down with people and learn about it all and like share with everybody. It’s super cool.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. It’s been a lot for everybody really, because I think a lot of people, especially here in Utah, it’s like the Wild West when it comes to the knowledge because, the facilities, like the pharmacies and whatnot, to go purchase the items, but without podcasts like this or Salt Baked City, outlets like that, there’s no way to learn about any of these stuff.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. If nobody talks to you, then no one knows about extraction and nobody knows how to fill a vape cart. Like what goes on. Right? We all watched the YouTube video of how this is made. Right.? My kids are always into that.
Brent:
Oh yeah.
Tim Pickett:
Right. We want to go to the farm. We want to watch it. We want to listen to it. And there is no way to know about that stuff in cannabis world, in the medical marijuana world without talking about it, because there’s no advertising. So we just all have to go out, do it without, or teach other.
Brent:
Like you said, it’s you guys and Salt Baked City, those guys that are actually the interface between the patients and the extractions, dispensaries and the growers and all that stuff.
Chris Holifield:
You were saying, you make 1200 carts on your best day or one day or something. Right?
Brent:
About 1,200. We might have done a little more.
Chris Holifield:
So we’re recording, we’re across the street from Beehive, for example, right?
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. Beehive Farmacy, I’m looking at their front door.
Chris Holifield:
How many vape carts you think they sell in a day? I mean, because there’s not that many pharmacies. If you could make that many in one day, I mean, are you busy every day?
Brent:
If we have the material to extract, but once that’s there, and the testing is there, it’s fill, fill, fill, fill, fill, because there are so many orders we just can’t meet because there’s a lack of….
Tim Pickett:
Like product, so…
Chris Holifield:
I mean that blows in a way that if you’re making now, if 1200 is the most and you’ve made that much and you’re still can’t even keep up. It makes me wonder, how much could this state really handle-
Tim Pickett:
Well if there’s 25,000 patients now. And everybody’s doing a couple of hundred transactions a day. Of the eight pharmacies that are open now, and there’re times times all of that buy, how many people buy vape carts every time they go, buy one once every… Maybe everybody, maybe there’s 25,000 vape carts being sold a month.
Brent:
Probably more. Yeah,
Tim Pickett:
This is a small… And Utah’s a super small market.
Brent:
Oh yeah.
Tim Pickett:
For this.
Brent:
Yeah. Right now it is.
Chris Holifield:
So you think even Wasatch Extraction is making more than 25,000 carts in a month.
Tim Pickett:
No, because you’d be making a thousand carts every day, but across the marketplace…
Brent:
For a while there, we were everyday strong making carts. We are in the process of looking for automatic filler, but there are some that have major issues. And so you really got to do your research and it’d be awesome to pull a lever, and in 30 seconds do a hundred carts and then take the dye, move it over to the capper and cap them. We’re not quite there yet, because again, we just don’t have the biomass to justify that purchase.
Tim Pickett:
Right. You just you’d fill all your carts in two days and then you’d be out of work for two weeks till you get more.
Brent:
Right.
Tim Pickett:
We have got to get more people putting plants in the ground in this state or this has never been going to-
Chris Holifield:
Again, I know we talk about this a lot, but when you probably told me what this is, Tim. But is that really all we need, is people to put plants in the ground or what. We have the growers but it is not growing or what?
Tim Pickett:
The growers aren’t growing. I mean, even the growers with licenses, there’s only a fraction. Less than half the growers that have licenses or enough plants in the ground to do this.
Brent:
Yeah.
Tim Pickett:
But it was all it, I’m not blaming the growers.
Chris Holifield:
Yeah. But by now though, we should have plenty of time to get this ball going.
Tim Pickett:
I’m just saying that there are so many things along that pathway, along that supply chain. The small tweaks in the beginning.
Brent:
I’m pretty sure you guys have heard about the gerrymandering that went on with all the license being handed out. And I think there was some corruption in there. There’s been some investigating and there’s been found to be corruption.
Tim Pickett:
Yes. Not really publicized.
Brent:
These licenses were given to people that had no clue what they’re doing.
Tim Pickett:
Totally agree with this.
Brent:
Most of them.
Chris Holifield:
I’ve read about it in the paper, but we’ve never really talked about it on the podcast.
Tim Pickett:
Because nobody will come on. I’ve invited a few of these people on our podcast, I’ve decided not… So far, we haven’t named names of the people that I’ve invited on, but they don’t respond.
Chris Holifield:
Is it just because they don’t have the knowledge of growing. Is that really what it is? They get these licenses and then they don’t even know how to grow.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. I mean, they were in on the permitting process and they got their applications approved. There was actually growers that didn’t even plan on growing and were forced by the state to start to grow. The state went to them and said, “Okay, when are you going to grow?” And they were like, “Well, we’re just going to wait maybe a couple of years.” And the state had to tell them, “No, you’ve got to grow. This is part of why we give you a license.”
Chris Holifield:
Even though they rejected other people, that probably would have been growing right away.
Tim Pickett:
Well, sure. And you know what? We all complain, we don’t all complain. I don’t complain about Tryke but there’s plenty of complaints about Tryke in the marketplace, but God bless them. They got there.
Chris Holifield:
They got supply out there.
Tim Pickett:
They got supply out there, and they have been really great at getting people flower.
Chris Holifield:
And some of it is really good.
Tim Pickett:
Yes. Some of it is really good. And I think Zion has really stepped up their production, and they’ve got a lot more product going out. And other than those two, well who’s the other one you were talking about Riverside,
Brent:
Oakbridge.
Tim Pickett:
Oakbridge.
Brent:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim Pickett:
Right. And how much grow we need. If somebody is out there listening from Oakbridge, we want to have you on the podcast,
Chris Holifield:
Please, please reach out to Tim or myself.
Tim Pickett:
Because we need more growers to come out and tell the story. It’s a gap in our knowledge, other than like Zion and Tryke.
Brent:
Right.
Tim Pickett:
We know them and we know Wholesome. We know their story, and we know their process of trying to get their grow going. But other than that, I don’t really know.
Brent:
It’s going to be tough because they literally have to be willing to like set their ego aside and admit to the fact that they’re trying to learn. They don’t know how currently, and they’re trying to learn, which everybody does. I get, it’s a process, but that’s, what’s going on. Only a few people know how to do it. And yeah, you’re right. People do complain about these big companies coming in and taking the market, but they can deliver it, they know what they’re doing.
Tim Pickett:
Right. And we need a delivery. Okay. You know who I forgot that I really feel bad about because I’ve met with them a past couple of weeks, is Dragonfly.
Chris Holifield:
Yeah. They got good stuff coming out.
Tim Pickett:
They have great product and they have really tried to do it all in-house and do it in a right way. Like you say, they’ve had to learn all of this stuff as they go, but they brought in really good people in the beginning to help. But Dragonfly stepped up. They had product, they had flower, faster than anybody. So kudos to them too.
Brent:
Absolutely.
Tim Pickett:
They’ve really tried their hardest to get product on the shelf for people.
Brent:
Yeah.
Tim Pickett:
I liked those guys a lot too.
Chris Holifield:
Yeah.
Brent:
Have you had them in? I know…
Chris Holifield:
The Dragonfly?
Brent:
Yeah.
Chris Holifield:
Oh yeah, episode three.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah Narith. Narith came in episode three. And in fact, we’ve been talking to him about coming on again because it’s their one year anniversary. They actually won one of the best cannabis companies to work for in the nation.
Brent:
Wow.
Tim Pickett:
They’re women owned and minority owned. They do a ton for their employees. They’re a very good place to work. And my experience with Dragonfly now that I know them a little bit better, it does seem likely like to do things in-house, their own. They have a plan. They work hard for sure.
Brent:
Yeah. That woman is a business woman. She knows what she’s doing. And she is a shark. She is a go getter. She gets it done.
Tim Pickett:
She does. Yeah. Hoang.
Brent:
We should bring her on.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. I would love to have her on. She has a fascinating story. Her family story. Yeah. And I’ll let her tell it, but definitely she needs to come on because their family story and Dragonfly as a whole has done a lot, I think, for the market and helping things get going.
Chris Holifield:
Where do you see the future of Wasatch Extraction? Just bigger machines pumping out more carts and whatnot, or where do you see this all headed?
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. Well Like I said, we’re purchasing equipment to get other processes going. We just want a lot of different products going out. We want the live rosin, we want the bubble hash. We want the shatter. Just we want to bring the best to the Utah patients, is really our main goal.
Chris Holifield:
What’s the best way, is there a way that people, that listeners, can find out more about your products or like Fruit of Life, I guess, to find out about the carts and availabilities and stuff, I guess on Instagram, would be the best place.
Brent:
I’ve been slacking on the Instagram, but I do plan on putting more time and energy into that and definitely trying to get back all the messages. So that’s probably the number one place they can interface with us right now. Just send us a direct message on Instagram. We’ll do our best to get back to you guys, we just have a few employees. So a lot of us wear multiple hats. And when it’s time to process, we’re processing. And when it’s time to fill, we’re filling. And then in between, we’re trying to do some social media stuff and stuff like that.
Tim Pickett:
It’s awesome to hear this whole thing.
Chris Holifield:
Do you guys ever need like temp workers or anything? Man, I’m always down to like learn a few things here. Send me a message, say, “Hey Chris, are you busy this weekend?”
Brent:
Do you ever want to come by and take a tour? Let’s have you guys out.
Tim Pickett:
We want to see. Yeah, come and we can post it on our social too. And we can show people how a vape cart’s made.
Brent:
Make sense.
Tim Pickett:
I want to see-
Chris Holifield:
Are you in the Salt Lake here or where?
Brent:
We’re right around the corner.
Chris Holifield:
No kidding.
Brent:
Yeah.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. We’re coming for sure.
Brent:
Pleasure. Let’s do it.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. Look for how to make a vape cart video.
Brent:
There you go.
Chris Holifield:
Do you still run into a lot… You probably don’t run into as much. Remember when vape carts got a bad name, they were dirty you know. I mean, they still kind of have a bad name if you get street ones and stuff, but did you deal with much of that on your end or not really?
Brent:
I mean a hundred percent because our number one selling product is a vape cartridge and we were planning on producing that product when all that was going on. And from what I took from everything I learned about that situation was, it was a really quickly diagnosed to a limited source of black market cartridges that were putting, what was it, Vitamin E?
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. Vitamin E acetate.
Brent:
Exactly.
Tim Pickett:
But there has been some concern that like MCT oil or stuff like that. I mean, are there things that Wasatch has said, “Look, we will not put that in a vape cart because it’s dangerous.”
Brent:
A hundred percent. Yeah. We didn’t even want to mess around with it. We don’t put MCT in our carts. It’s literally pure distillate with very minute amounts of terpenes added to it.
Tim Pickett:
Okay, cool.
Brent:
But it’s pure distillate. Other than that, we didn’t want to mess around with any of that popcorn line junk that was going on.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. So just keep it as clean and as pure as possible.
Brent:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim Pickett:
And I mean, it seems like everybody has gone that direction, whether or not anything else that was being added was totally safe or not.
Brent:
Right.
Tim Pickett:
And that as well, not added at all.
Brent:
Yeah. I mean, people are putting all sorts of crazy stuff in there. And who knows what that turns into once you put it under a temperature. It could turn into a toxic chemical that could be harming you.
Tim Pickett:
That’s how the vitamin E came about. It’s a food grade product. It’s totally okay to ingest, but once you heat it and you inhale it into your lungs, bad news. And it just wasn’t tested for that.
Chris Holifield:
Probably another good reason to get product from somebody like yourself. Product that had been extracted from you, at like beehive or whatnot, because you know, it’s safe.
Tim Pickett:
Don’t you think that’s true too? I mean buying, I’ve never done it, but I’m sure there are cartridges off the black market you could buy.
Brent:
Oh yeah.
Tim Pickett:
That are like, why would you do that? That’s pretty risky.
Chris Holifield:
Hey. I bought an off the black market carts.
Tim Pickett:
Have you?
Chris Holifield:
Well, way before Utah… I mean…
Tim Pickett:
Well, and that’s what you had to do and flower too. Right?
Chris Holifield:
Oh yeah.
Tim Pickett:
Everybody’s buying everything.
Brent:
No. I’m all for complete legalization of all substances, but I’m all for regulation. They need to be safe and they need to be administered the right way. And if something goes wrong, then you can help people. And you don’t have the people leaving their friends on the floor dying because they’re scared of going to jail themselves. Things that are kept on the black market, you’re literally… That money is going to gangs and cartels and stuff like that in big part. Those are the people you’re supporting. And I mean, there’re little guys and stuff like that, but it’s like, “If you guys want to do this right. Do it out in the open, we can all talk about it. We can all do it right.”
Chris Holifield:
And I think that’s happening more and more.
Brent:
A hundred percent. Yeah.
Tim Pickett:
It’s been fun having this conversation. I’ve learned a lot today.
Chris Holifield:
Anything more you want to talk about before we wrap this up, or anything more that you wanted to make sure to bring up or…
Brent:
I’m just excited that what’s going on in Utah right now is going on. I thought it would be much further down the line, so it’s just really cool to see it all happening. And I get that it’s baby steps. A lot of people are really frustrated about certain things, but it’s like, “Hey guys, it’s a process.”
Chris Holifield:
Yeah. It takes time. It takes time. I mean, any state, even Colorado took years before it established, yet you can go there and get cheaper products. You can go there and get more product, but they’ve also been around a lot longer and they’ve…
Tim Pickett:
They’ve worked this out. Those thanks Brent.
Chris Holifield:
So give us time. Give us time So go connect with, with you guys and see what you got going on.
Brent:
@TheFruitOfLifeUtah is our Instagram. We do have a Facebook as well, but we’re most active on Instagram, but definitely give us a message. If you guys have anything you are looking for and you want us to produce, please let us know. We’d love to make that happen.
Chris Holifield:
Very cool.
Tim Pickett:
Well cool.
Chris Holifield:
And then utahmarijuana.org/podcast is where you can listen to this podcast and listen to all the back episodes because there’s well over 50 of them up there now.
Tim Pickett:
Yeah. There’re episodes there. You can find us on YouTube at Discover Marijuana. All the podcasts are being uploaded. I think we’re more than halfway through uploading all of those. So if that happens to be your method of choice, your delivery method, right?
Chris Holifield:
And then connect with us on social media too Instagram, Facebook, The Whole Nine Yards, shift with utahmarijuana.org, Instagram, whatnot.
Tim Pickett:
And go take a listen to I Am Salt Lake.
Chris Holifield:
Oh yeah, I haven’t talked about that for a few episodes on my other podcast. I Am Salt Lake. Iamsaltlake.com, go listen that. Go back to episode 420 with Tim. Tim was on episode 420. That was a fun episode.
Tim Pickett:
That was fun.
Chris Holifield:
That was good with him. That was over a year ago.
Tim Pickett:
Where this whole thing got started.
Chris Holifield:
Yeah. So, well thanks a lot, Brent.
Brent:
Thank you guys for having me. It was awesome.
Chris Holifield:
Absolutely. Let’s bring you on down the road.
Tim Pickett:
All right everybody. Stay safe out there.
During a Utah in the Weeds podcast from late 2020, hosts Tim and Chris welcomed guest Desiree Hennesey from Utah Patients Coalition, with strong legislative ties in hopes of talking about what’s going on with Medical Cannabis at the state level. They learned of an effort to change the law so that any licensed doctor in the state can prescribe Medical Marijuana without having to go through the process to become a Qualified Medical Provider (QMP).
What do you think? Should any doctor be able to write your prescription? There are a lot of people that think so. Loosening up the QMP requirements might even convince some doctors still on the fence to climb over into the greener fields of Medical Cannabis. Would this help or hurt patients across the state?
Those in favor of the rule changes suggest that allowing all doctors to prescribe would:
Proponents want patients to have easy access to Medical Marijuana, but should Medical Cannabis be as easy to get as penicillin? That is what it boils down to.
Right now, almost 600 of Utah’s doctors, PAs and NPs are registered Qualified Medical Providers, allowed by the state of Utah, to recommend Medical Marijuana to their patients. These providers have completed 4 hours of specialized training and registered with the Department of Health in order to make these recommendations. Doctors who are not registered, and are not QMPs, stay away from Medical Marijuana for plenty of reasons. Some do not think it is worth their while. Others are afraid they don’t know enough about cannabis. Some still aren’t sure where they stand in terms of liability.
Right now, the majority of Medical Providers actively working with patients are located in the Provo and Salt Lake areas. If you live in rural Utah, you could end up driving quite a distance just to see a Medical Cannabis specialist. You might have to drive to get to a dispensary now, too. But as more dispensaries open, wouldn’t it be nice if there were more doctors helping patients get their Medical Cannabis cards? More participating doctors means less travel for a lot of patients.
There is another aspect to the legislation that deserves some serious consideration. It has been proposed that the state allow any licensed doctor to assist patients in obtaining a Medical Cannabis card, with or without QMP training. But when it comes time to write an actual recommendation, the task will be left to a Medical Cannabis pharmacist.
This sort of thing is risky in a number of ways.
If all the doctor is required to know is that the patient sitting in their office legitimately suffers from a qualifying medical condition, it’s only half the job. The second half is evaluating what treatment options are best for that patient and recommending the best possible options. Though we would not necessarily expect a medical provider to fully understand cannabis and the cannabinoid system, we would expect the doctor to know at least what the main benefits and risks are, the legal implications for their patient, and how to educate their patient on those things.
It is a pharmacist’s job to understand drugs and how they affect patients. This makes a pharmacist a great source of information and education for Medical Cannabis patients. But the idea of allowing all doctors to be a Qualified Medical Provider and to recommend Medical Cannabis to patients and leaving all the work to the pharmacist is potentially risky for doctors and could be risky for patients.
So. should all doctors in the state of Utah be allowed to prescribe Medical Marijuana? Some people think so. And if they have their way, the rules in Utah could be changed this year.
