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What to Expect in this Episode

Chris and Tim’s guest, Brent, was the first employee brought on to help get Wasatch extraction up and running. His initial experience was a learn-as-you-go type of thing. Once they got up and running and brought more employees on board, Brent took the role of Lab Director.

Wasatch Extraction started in the hemp market; they are now in the medical market as well. Their biggest concern on the medical side is the lack of biomass. They do very little hemp right now because the money isn’t there. In order to expand the medical side of things, they are in the process of bringing in new equipment that will allow them to tap the rosin market.

In addition to having an extraction license, the company also has a tier 1 processing license. That enables them to make a number of finished products, including vaping carts. Wasatch Extraction makes their own branded carts as well as white label products for other brands.

Vape carts are the company’s bestseller right now. Brent called them ‘low hanging fruit’ because they are easy to make and use. However, Wasatch Extraction would really like to get into more concentrates. That’s where rosin comes in. No one is offering it in Utah right now.

Wasatch Extraction is looking to grow significantly in the next few years. But again, access to product is the main hindrance. Brent, Chris, and Tim all agreed that there needs to be a greater access on growing in Utah. More plants in the ground is the only way to solve the supply problem.

Episode 53 of Utah in the Weeds is a fascinating discussion for anyone interested in the happenings at a typical extraction and processing operation. This episode is jampacked with information you may not know.

Resources in This Episode

Follow the podcast at UtahMarijuana.org, or leave us a message at (385) 215-9557.
Check out Chris Holifield’s other podcast, I am Salt Lake.
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Discover Marijuana.

Podcast Transcript

Chris Holifield:

All right. Let’s welcome everybody out today to episode 53 of Utah in the Weeds. My name’s Chris Holifield.

Tim Pickett:

And I’m Tim Pickett, a QMP in Utah and a medical cannabis expert, so to speak. Pretty excited about the interview today Chris, with an extractor in Utah.

Chris Holifield:

Yeah. Brent, the Lab Director at Wasatch Extraction. And for people that don’t know, in Wasatch Extraction, they make all the carts here in Utah pretty much. Right? I don’t think there’s any place else that makes carts in Utah.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. I mean, I think there’s a couple of other vertically integrated places that are making up their own carts. Like I think Dragonfly does, or Zion does. When you have these processors, they have to get product from Tryke, or from one of the other growers. And then they process it into these products that we love and they make, Wasatch Extraction is making some medicine that is really top-notch.

Chris Holifield:

And then they’re doing the Fruit of Life carts as well. So we talk a little bit about that in this conversation, which was really cool to kind of put some of the pieces together.

Tim Pickett:

Right? Just another interview to put the pieces together, to get to know all of the different brands in Utah, all of the different processes that you’re getting your medicine. And if you’re interested in becoming a patient in Utah, like knowing essentially seed to sale. Right? Where your medicine comes from, which is something you can’t do with normal pharmaceuticals. So it’s a good educational and cultural interview, I thought.

Chris Holifield:

Also I want to mention Tim. I know we didn’t talk about this before we started recording, but I want to make a little send out or a request to people. If you know, of any 420 events going on, to send that into Tim or I. I know you and I we’re going to collect some of the events and whatnot and talk about it next week on the podcast, but let’s… Hey, if anybody knows of any, reach out to Tim or myself. Let us know, so we can talk about it on the podcast as well.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. Stay tuned, next week we’ll have all of those local events, we’ll have details about what’s going on at the different pharmacies and the big events. It’s a fun month. It’s not only a recreational holiday, or an adult use holiday, but I think that it’s becoming a big deal, even nationwide to celebrate the cannabis movement in medical or adult use, whatever you’re into.

Chris Holifield:

And I’m trying to think, there was something… Oh, utahmarijuana.org/podcast. Go listen to all the episodes there. I’m sure there’s a couple that you haven’t listened to. So go check them out, make sure you’re subscribed in whatever app you listen to podcasts in. Should we get into the podcast, or the interview?

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. Let’s do.

Chris Holifield:

Tim, anything else want to talk about?

Tim Pickett:

Nope, let’s get into it.

Chris Holifield:

All right. Here’s that with Brent, from Wasatch Extraction. Enjoy. Well, let’s start with Wasatch Extraction, man. How did you get involved with Wasatch Extraction?

Brent:

Well, the owner, or one of the owners Steve [Gasdes 00:03:13], me and him go way back to high school. So we were just buddies causing trouble back in the day and he got the opportunity to get the license. He wanted to get a grill and a dispensary license as well, but we got the extraction license. So we started there and then I had some experience in the cannabis industry, but just a little bit. And so he was like, “Hey, do you want to help me start this thing up?” So I jumped on board and super grateful.

Chris Holifield:

And you’re the lab director there, right?

Brent:

Lab director.

Chris Holifield:

So what exactly is that like, what’s your day to day? What are you doing there?

Brent:

Right. Well, basically I was employee number one coming on and I was there for myself for like the first nine months. The first year we were just doing CBD. And I hadn’t ever done CO2 extraction or used a rotovap or a short path before. So it was really, a little bit intimidating coming on because this equipment shows up and you’re like, “Oh man, that might be out of my league.” But it’s just like anything else, you do it a hundred times and you’re like, “Oh I get it.”

Brent:

So just basically, and then once we started to pick up a little more, we got some employees on board. Basically, I mostly run the post-processing after the initial extraction, I guess I run the CO2 machines, but generally we’re doing ethanol right now. So we have Tyson and Gareth doing ethanol for us. And then I’m upstairs in the upper lab doing the rotovap, or the winterizing ,or short path, or I do some HPLC stuff as well.

Chris Holifield:

A lot of things going over my head right here.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. I followed you to ethanol. Right?

Brent:

Right.

Tim Pickett:

I know what that is. And I know it goes away when the product comes out the door.

Brent:

Yes.

Tim Pickett:

Right.

Brent:

If you’re doing it right. It does. Yeah.

Tim Pickett:

But then you’re talking about, is this all still hemp CBD processing, or now you’re in the medical market.

Brent:

We’re in the medical market. Yep. We’re lucky enough to get that license as well. And then partner with some farmers or I guess you can be partners with the farmers.

Chris Holifield:

License?. What license, like grow license or just a processing-

Brent:

No, just the extraction license.

Chris Holifield:

Extraction license.

Brent:

But you have to be GMP certified and all that stuff to do medical marijuana. And then you got to go through, because I think we’re the only facility in the state that actually can do both CBD and THC under the same roof. But we did have to go through certain precautions to make sure there was no cross-contamination and stuff like that. Gave that plan to the state, have it approved. But the first year we were just doing CBD. So it was great for me because I got to really dial everything in. And now that we’re doing marijuana, we’re not really doing much CBD right now because the price per liters drop so much, it’s really not worth the labor and the chemicals and stuff like that. So we’ve shifted full-time over to THC. But it has slowed the pace quite a bit because as you know, there’s a lack of-

Tim Pickett:

Like product biomass-

Brent:

Flower and biomass and stuff like that in the state right now.

Tim Pickett:

Describe that a little bit so that people understand, because there are companies like Wholesome, who have a license to go all the way from seed to sale. Right?

Brent:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tim Pickett:

And there are some companies who just have grow licenses and then they have to find other people. So where are you getting the product?

Brent:

Right. Right now we are mostly getting it from Tryke right now, but they’re so spread thin. They can only give us so much. We were working with Oakbridge quite a bit to get stuff from them. And they, I haven’t been to many facilities, but they have a massive facility going up North. And so they’ve basically decided to focus on just going all the biomass and extraction. So they aren’t really doing too much smokable. So they, and Tyler really knows what he’s doing, I don’t know if you know about Oakbridge, but they have nurseries and stuff like that. He grew up just growing things. So he has a green thumb. Obviously marijuana is very different, so it takes a while to understand its particular needs and stuff like that. They are cranking out a ton of biomass, but I think they’re trying to start an extraction themselves. So we’ve shifted to, Tri-C basically, long story short.

Chris Holifield:

I want to back up a little bit, you were mentioning how you had prior experience with cannabis before getting into this. Earlier in the conversation, do you care to share anything about that? Like, was it here in Utah or out of state or were you growing or what were you doing —

Brent:

It was in California, just some small scale grows. Nothing crazy. And then I was doing bubble hash for the shops out there.

Chris Holifield:

Bubble hash?

Brent:

Small time though. So Bubble hash, it’s making a comeback, which I love. It’s a solventless extraction, so basically you just freeze the biomass, tumble around in some ice water, knock all the trichomes free, and some other compounds and stuff like that and throw it through a series of bags. And you’re basically sifting through gold to find the particular grade that you’re looking for.

Chris Holifield:

That’s wonderful.

Tim Pickett:

That’s pretty cool, but solventless.

Brent:

That’s what I love about it. Yeah.

Tim Pickett:

That’s your favorite type of extraction or is there a place for everything?

Brent:

It’s not my favorite to do because it’s very manual, labor intensive because you’re bouncing bags. But it’s my favorite…

Tim Pickett:

Like end product.

Brent:

Yes. Well actually my favorite’s live rosin. Live rosin is basically just a heated press. And so you can put flower in there, but you’re not going to get a whole lot out for each press. But if you put bubble hash in there, it’s going squeeze it, ooze out, just tons of live rosin, that’s my favorite stuff to use, I guess. And we’re ordering all the equipment for that very soon. So we’ll be bringing that to the patients. Nobody here in Utah is doing it at the moment that I’m aware of.

Tim Pickett:

No, there’s no live rosin anywhere.

Brent:

No.

Tim Pickett:

Trust me. We would know.

Brent:

Right.

Tim Pickett:

Everybody would know.

Brent:

Yep. Yep.

Tim Pickett:

There’s been a little bit of dry or hash, is it hash resin?

Brent:

Like bubble hash or?

Tim Pickett:

Yeah.

Brent:

Yeah. They call it bubble hash because if you do it right, and you hold a lighter up to it, it bubbles and sizzles.

Tim Pickett:

Interesting.

Brent:

Yeah. Or if not, it just burns like a piece of charcoal. Like plant matter in there and stuff like that.

Chris Holifield:

I love talking about stuff like that because a lot of times you hear it out and about right, tut you’re like, “I don’t know what this means.” A lot of the terminology and I know a lot of people that listen to this are newbies when it comes to cannabis. So it’s like, I want to educate them when it comes to the different, different terms and words. So they’re not intimidated when they’re going into the pharmacies because I know how it is a lot of times. I mean, it wasn’t even for me, the first time I ever went into my first legal dispensary in Colorado. Man, I was so intimidated. I was like, “I don’t know if I know all the right lingo here.”

Brent:

Right.

Tim Pickett:

Lingo. You don’t know if you’re allowed to talk to somebody. I need to just stay quiet. Or it’s you stand in line?

Chris Holifield:

Yeah

Brent:

We used to go into head shops. And if you said the wrong language…

Chris Holifield:

You know, get out of here.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. They be like, “You’re out for this.”. Right.

Chris Holifield:

This is for smoking tobacco.

Brent:

Exactly.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah, it is. Yeah. Maybe we’re peoples safe place to learn about things like that.

Chris Holifield:

I wanted to, yeah.

Brent:

Yeah. People need them.

Tim Pickett:

They really do.

Brent:

Absolutely.

Tim Pickett:

Okay. Your focus, what’s Wasatch Extraction doing mostly now, as far as the extraction process and making products, labeling, getting it out the door?

Brent:

So not only do we have the extraction license, but we also have a tier one processing license, which allows us to formulate and package. That gives us the ability to mix the distillate, or whatever that end product is. Not end product, but an end extraction product, mix it into tinctures, formulate in the lotions or put it into vape cartridges, add terps if you want. Stuff like that, and then package. So basically box and label.

Tim Pickett:

I can bring you a cannabis plant that’s dried and ready and tested. And then you can take that plant and make it into pretty much whatever I need.

Brent:

Absolutely.

Tim Pickett:

That’s kind of what Wasatch Extraction is all about.

Brent:

Yeah. We bridge a lot of gaps because like you were saying earlier, you have the farmers or the people to grow, licensed in the dispensary’s, but we’re the people that are the go-between. I believe True North got it, tier one as well. And they’re trying to keep it everything pretty much in-house. Other brands are actually loving our distillate so much that they’re basically co-branding.

Tim Pickett:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. White label, or co-branding and stuff like that. They bring their recipe to you and then they say, “Hey, make this recipe, put our label on it.”

Brent:

Exactly.

Tim Pickett:

I see.

Brent:

And actually they love our recipe so much. They’re like, “Put that in here and we’ll tweak it a little bit to make it ours.” Because, everybody wants their own personal touch on everything, which is great. And then yeah, we put it into their cartridges and it goes out and what people would know…

Chris Holifield:

Kind of like, we’re in the Fruit of Life shop, for example, you fill their carts up. Right? Is that kind of…

Brent:

Well actually the Fruit is Life is a brand.

Chris Holifield:

Of Wasatch Extraction.

Brent:

Yes. It’s our own brand. Yeah.

Chris Holifield:

Yeah. I got you.

Tim Pickett:

Okay. That even adds another layer to it. So you can work for other process or other growers and process their product like Tryke and then get their stuff out and then you could do your own and brand it in Fruit of Life and put that out.

Brent:

Exactly. So we can actually buy biomass or plant matter or flower from the growers and we’re able to do our own brand from that, which is super amazing.

Tim Pickett:

That’s cool. And it makes it kind of complicated in the system because there’s a lot of those, there’s a lot of brands, even in the small marketplace that we have, it seems like there’s a lot of brands and then tracing that product back to the processor and then back to who actually grew the flower. I think a lot of people are interested in that and knowing where their stuff comes from?

Brent:

100%. Yeah. There’s a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that people are very unaware of. And some people, they want to know exactly where this came from, and source, all that stuff, which I like too. I like to kind of know where my stuff’s coming from, because there’s basically the facade that the packaging labeling isn’t. I started to realize this once I got into this industry like, “I don’t know, Doritos, they package for lots of other people, or they give their different recipes to other brands.” There’s these major processing facilities that you can go to with your recipe and say, “Hey, I want to make a product. Will you white label it for me?” And so it’s interesting.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. It’s like that in medical marijuana.

Brent:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tim Pickett:

What’s your favorite product or what seems to be the favorite product that you guys make right now? Do you think you have one?

Brent:

Yeah. The vape cartridges are the number one selling for sure.

Chris Holifield:

So you’re pretty much making everybody’s vape carts cartridges, no?

Brent:

No. That’s a very recent development that certain people have come to us and said, “Hey, we want to use your distillate and our vape cartridge.” There’s a lot of brands out there somehow making their own. They must have obviously a processing license.

Chris Holifield:

Okay.

Brent:

And I know other people are trying to get in and some people are working under our license. So they have to be at our facility. Certain brands come in, the Hygge. I think it’s Hygge, I’m so-

Chris Holifield:

Those little chews, the cubes.

Brent:

They are the economy king right now. They’re everywhere. And they were working out of our facility till just about a month ago.

Chris Holifield:

So you were processing those.

Brent:

Yeah. They were using our distillate and…

Chris Holifield:

Where did they go?

Brent:

That was Oakbridge as well. So they moved up, they finally built that part of their facility and moved down on up.

Chris Holifield:

Very cool.

Brent:

Yeah.

Chris Holifield:

Do you have a personal relationship with cannabis or, I mean, we don’t need to talk about that if you’d rather not, I was just curious from a personal relationship. I mean, if you’re a medical patient at all, or if anything like that?

Brent:

Not currently one here in the state of Utah, I have done previously in other States, but I mean I’ve loved the benefits of cannabis from an early age, junior high. And I definitely do not recommend younger people using cannabis early on. Wait till you’re more developed to do those things. I just experienced a lot of benefits personally. And I was like, “This thing can’t be bad, it does so many amazing things for me.” And so I’ve always just kind of been drawn to it and found work in the industries somehow. And I just love it.

Chris Holifield:

Very cool.

Tim Pickett:

That’s pretty cool. I think you fill in some of the gaps that we need to know about this whole system in Utah. Did any of the legal changes? Do you follow any of this that have changed in like the hemp laws, or the medical marijuana laws? Is anything going to change for you in 2021, that was different or is everything was pretty well set last year with the rules and not a ton has changed with the processing?

Brent:

To my knowledge, not a whole lot changed other than, I guess originally, extraction processes like BHO, we’re going to be off the-

Chris Holifield:

BHO — what is that?

Brent:

Butane extraction.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah.

Brent:

Or even bubble hash, I hear originally was not going to be possible. But those have come through, but that was last year in 2020.

Tim Pickett:

Oh yeah. That was the concentrates when they allowed. So originally, patients were not going to be allowed to access concentrates until they failed two other methods.

Brent:

Right.

Chris Holifield:

Fail two other methods of…

Brent:

Of ingestion.

Chris Holifield:

Of cannabis?

Tim Pickett:

So you could get flower, you could get vape carts, but you had to do that. And then let’s say your 90 day renewal, you were going to have to go back to your provider and say, “Hey, this is not working for me. I need access to concentrates.” And they changed that law right before things even got really going, to just allow people to work with their medical provider and decide what works best for them originally and just have access from day one. And that probably affected the processors a bit, because concentrates… Yeah. I mean, now it seems like there’s going to be a better market for concentrates and people will have more options. Right?

Brent:

Absolutely. And I know all the patients I’m asking for it, on the social medias and stuff like that, we’ve been asking like, “Hey, what do you guys need? What do you guys want?” Everybody’s like, “We want live rosin and we want bubble hash, or shatter or whatever” So we’d love to be able to offer that, so that’s cool.

Chris Holifield:

What has been a hold up with live rosin and whatnot?

Tim Pickett:

I’ve heard, it’s just the biomass. It’s the fact that you can’t get enough raw materials to make more than just vape carts. Right?

Brent:

Right.

Tim Pickett:

Vape cart sell, they’re selling out. They’re easy to make or, however hard they are to make, that’s all you have product to make,

Brent:

Right. That’s kind of the low hanging fruit. It’s a great delivery method because it’s easy for people, you just push a button, it tastes good, you get your medication. As you get to know cannabis a little better, you start looking for the purest methods and just the more enjoyable methods that give you the desired result.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. And that ends up being more concentrates and more availability. I don’t know, what’s your experience with concentrates?

Chris Holifield:

Zero.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah, mine too. I mean, I’ve experienced live rosin.

Chris Holifield:

So have I. I have experienced that.

Tim Pickett:

I will say from my experience, my personal experience, it is a different experience and it’s pretty amazing. The only way to describe it is like in something that you say or that people would understand was be the difference between the nicest bottle of wine you’ve ever drank and Three-Buck Chuck from Trader Joe’s.

Brent:

Right.

Chris Holifield:

You gave a good example probably here.

Tim Pickett:

I mean, there’s something about that, right? The table wine is fine and that’s good for everyday use it. It’s tasty, but there is just something about like, you don’t know what you’re experiencing until you drink that wine. And you’re like, “Oh wow, this is a lot better. I know why this is worth money.”

Brent:

Everything you want basically, and nothing you don’t want, flower itself has so many compounds going on in it. And as you extract things, you start to isolate and concentrate certain compounds, but you get rid of a lot of the other beneficial things like terpenes. You can add natural or synthetic food grade terpenes to your products. But I mean, as you were pointing to earlier, it’s a different experience of the live rosin. It’s just a slightly different experience than smoking flower or vaporizing flower. I personally love to vaporize flower because you get the full spectrum, basically. Nothing’s then extracted out, and also it’s solvent less. So it’s just pure, has all the flavor and it’s very potent. So it’s great experience.

Tim Pickett:

And I would say that like a live rosin for a medical patient, when you get into the concentrates, this is something that we don’t recommend people use all the time. It’s really from my medical standpoint.

Chris Holifield:

Why wouldn’t you want to use it all the time?

Tim Pickett:

Because, one, it’s expensive.

Chris Holifield:

Okay.

Tim Pickett:

Just like simple. Simply it’s going to be more expensive than it is to buy flower and it’s stronger. And so reserving that for your really bad days, or the few days after chemo, this is the type of thing that’s best for, in my opinion. And if you can use it in those settings, then it maintains its effectiveness more. And it’s kind of special place in the medical marijuana world. And from an adult use standpoint, it kind of is that same thing. You’re reserving it for those special occasions. It’s just like my analogy with the bottle of wine. I mean, you’re not going to open a hundred dollars bottle of wine every day. Right?

Brent:

Unless you can afford it.

Tim Pickett:

I mean, I guess if you can afford it, I’m not supposed to be…

Brent:

I’m coming to your house.

Tim Pickett:

But there may be a time and a place for that sort of thing. And I like your discussion about the flower. Here you are, you work for an extractor. Right? But I mean, some of the purest form of using cannabis is yeah, putting it right at 385 degrees and putting the old volcano at 385 and filing up a bag.

Chris Holifield:

And light and you hit the button and go.

Brent:

I love it.

Chris Holifield:

Yeah.

Brent:

You know, it’s all about finding where your tolerance is, and managing it to your benefit, like you were saying. If you’re doing this for pain, you don’t want to just have your tolerance for the roof, because you’ll be buying so much. And when you use it, it’s not going to have the same effects.

Tim Pickett:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brent:

So you’re right. I mean, there’s a lot of different products out there and you got to figure out which one your body responds to for what.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. How many vape carts do you think you guys make a day?

Brent:

Oh man. Well…

Tim Pickett:

I mean, we’re talking hundreds.

Brent:

Well, so right now we’re actually hand filling each one.

Chris Holifield:

You’re kidding.

Tim Pickett:

Oh my Gosh.

Brent:

And hand topping each one.

Chris Holifield:

Okay. Let’s hear more about that.

Brent:

We are buying a…

Chris Holifield:

Like Tupperware pitcher?

Tim Pickett:

You’re like pouring…

Brent:

It’s like a glue gun with a heat, and you just basically —

Tim Pickett:

It’s like hot glue.

Brent:

Yeah. And we’ve got a little assembly line. We can crank out. I think our record might be like 1200 for the day. And that’s a very small crew. That’s as crew of three.

Chris Holifield:

You’re not doing like any nicotine carts, you’re doing all, all cannabis-related CBD, THC, medical. No nicotine.

Tim Pickett:

What are they mixing it with? This is an oil form, you’ve extracted all of the THC out of the plant, which is kind of a fatty molecule. It’s a fatty, oily substance. How do you describe the THC oil?

Brent:

It’s very sticky, but it looks like an oil that acts, I guess it is an oil, but it’s like, man, really high potency THC distillate turns to like jolly rancher almost really quick.

Tim Pickett:

Okay. Yeah. It almost crystallizes. So you have to mix it with something that will allow it to stay a viscous form.

Brent:

So CBD crystallizes which is why a lot of people aren’t putting it into carts. And if you find one, it definitely has some other stuff in there with it to keep it in solution. THC, we don’t have to do that necessarily because it doesn’t crystallize. So it just has to be hot when you put it in there. And then the heat element on the vape cart will actually heat it up and allow it to flow.

Tim Pickett:

So you don’t need to add anything to the THC oil. You can just put straight THC oil, like 90 something percent into the vape cart.

Brent:

You can. I would prefer that, but everybody wants things to taste delicious these days.

Tim Pickett:

It will taste good.

Brent:

Yeah. They want their cannabis that tastes like Skittles or something. So I prefer the earthy taste. And the thing is when you extract, you extract out a lot of those terpenes and so you’re going to get an end result that doesn’t taste like what you think it might, which is why, and it kind of blew my mind when I started doing this. I’m sure everybody’s adding terps. Whether it’s marijuana terps or synthesized terps.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. And this is what makes your, this is what makes it taste a little lemony or citrusy, or it makes it taste a little bit more well. And then you can design, like if you buy a Jack Herer vape cart, that’s not saying that it came from that plant, it’s meaning that the terpene profile of what that strain was, what the cultivar was, is what they put back in a recipe form in that. Super Sour Diesel is a very common one. There’s a lot of them.

Brent:

Oh yeah. And the thing is like, terpenes, they’re part of the beneficial effects. Certain terpenes are what’s going to give you that pain relief or other effects. And so a lot of people, or the connoisseurs, or whatever are looking for certain strains because they include these terpenes. And so that’s definitely, I think where the market eventually will be moved to, is like, what effects do I need? Or what benefits do I need and which strains or terpenes give me those? And you’ll actually start looking for those rather than just the flavor.

Tim Pickett:

And I think you’re starting to see that people are looking for those more than they’re looking for sativa/indica. You don’t go in there and say, “Well, one day.” I think a lot of people still do, but we move towards a time when you’re going to the dispensary or the pharmacy. And you’ll say, “Hey, I need something with beta caryophyllene and limonene. These are the two terps that I think are, are better for me. And so do you have something that has those.” Instead of going in and saying, “I need something that’s an upper or that’s good for this or down.” Right? You’ll get a little more dialed as to what specifically works. And that can be a lot of terpenes. So do they add terpenes? Is that make it more viscous?

Brent:

It does.

Tim Pickett:

Because the terpenes come in a more liquid form.

Brent:

Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. Some people are adding 10% or more terpenes, which is a lot. And again, if they’re marijuana grade terpenes, that might be highly beneficial. You definitely want to add marijuana terpenes over lab synthesized food grade terpenes, but in a way terpenes are terpenes, because the same, like you were saying limonene, you’re gonna find that in limes.

Tim Pickett:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brent:

It’s the same actual compound or terpene, it’s also found in this plant too.

Chris Holifield:

Learn something every time I talk on it, or we record podcasts-

Tim Pickett:

We record this podcasts. I like this-

Chris Holifield:

Because I still find the indica-sativa thing interesting because I find it any sativa, way too much anxiety, so I always have to go to indica. But then people say that, that doesn’t matter.

Tim Pickett:

What does it smell like?

Chris Holifield:

What does it smell like? I have even no idea.

Tim Pickett:

Do you find that there’s a smell to the indica that you’re finding? Does the cannabis you use, tend to taste similar, like when you buy indica and I’ll bet over time…

Chris Holifield:

I think so. I guess I just don’t pay attention to that part of it.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. And I’ll bet over time, your cannabis smells more earthy, and you’re using more indica type terpenes, if that works for you. And you’re staying away from terpenes that are more associated with sativa.

Chris Holifield:

Yeah. Just because I find the sativa ones give me a lot more anxiety.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. Rebound headaches come with those sativa terpenes. Things like that.

Brent:

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you know a lot about the terpenes.

Tim Pickett:

Well, we’re just learning so much more about them and trying to…

Brent:

Right. Which is great about you guys do. You guys get to sit down with people and learn about it all and like share with everybody. It’s super cool.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. It’s been a lot for everybody really, because I think a lot of people, especially here in Utah, it’s like the Wild West when it comes to the knowledge because, the facilities, like the pharmacies and whatnot, to go purchase the items, but without podcasts like this or Salt Baked City, outlets like that, there’s no way to learn about any of these stuff.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. If nobody talks to you, then no one knows about extraction and nobody knows how to fill a vape cart. Like what goes on. Right? We all watched the YouTube video of how this is made. Right.? My kids are always into that.

Brent:

Oh yeah.

Tim Pickett:

Right. We want to go to the farm. We want to watch it. We want to listen to it. And there is no way to know about that stuff in cannabis world, in the medical marijuana world without talking about it, because there’s no advertising. So we just all have to go out, do it without, or teach other.

Brent:

Like you said, it’s you guys and Salt Baked City, those guys that are actually the interface between the patients and the extractions, dispensaries and the growers and all that stuff.

Chris Holifield:

You were saying, you make 1200 carts on your best day or one day or something. Right?

Brent:

About 1,200. We might have done a little more.

Chris Holifield:

So we’re recording, we’re across the street from Beehive, for example, right?

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. Beehive Farmacy, I’m looking at their front door.

Chris Holifield:

How many vape carts you think they sell in a day? I mean, because there’s not that many pharmacies. If you could make that many in one day, I mean, are you busy every day?

Brent:

If we have the material to extract, but once that’s there, and the testing is there, it’s fill, fill, fill, fill, fill, because there are so many orders we just can’t meet because there’s a lack of….

Tim Pickett:

Like product, so…

Chris Holifield:

I mean that blows in a way that if you’re making now, if 1200 is the most and you’ve made that much and you’re still can’t even keep up. It makes me wonder, how much could this state really handle-

Tim Pickett:

Well if there’s 25,000 patients now. And everybody’s doing a couple of hundred transactions a day. Of the eight pharmacies that are open now, and there’re times times all of that buy, how many people buy vape carts every time they go, buy one once every… Maybe everybody, maybe there’s 25,000 vape carts being sold a month.

Brent:

Probably more. Yeah,

Tim Pickett:

This is a small… And Utah’s a super small market.

Brent:

Oh yeah.

Tim Pickett:

For this.

Brent:

Yeah. Right now it is.

Chris Holifield:

So you think even Wasatch Extraction is making more than 25,000 carts in a month.

Tim Pickett:

No, because you’d be making a thousand carts every day, but across the marketplace…

Brent:

For a while there, we were everyday strong making carts. We are in the process of looking for automatic filler, but there are some that have major issues. And so you really got to do your research and it’d be awesome to pull a lever, and in 30 seconds do a hundred carts and then take the dye, move it over to the capper and cap them. We’re not quite there yet, because again, we just don’t have the biomass to justify that purchase.

Tim Pickett:

Right. You just you’d fill all your carts in two days and then you’d be out of work for two weeks till you get more.

Brent:

Right.

Tim Pickett:

We have got to get more people putting plants in the ground in this state or this has never been going to-

Chris Holifield:

Again, I know we talk about this a lot, but when you probably told me what this is, Tim. But is that really all we need, is people to put plants in the ground or what. We have the growers but it is not growing or what?

Tim Pickett:

The growers aren’t growing. I mean, even the growers with licenses, there’s only a fraction. Less than half the growers that have licenses or enough plants in the ground to do this.

Brent:

Yeah.

Tim Pickett:

But it was all it, I’m not blaming the growers.

Chris Holifield:

Yeah. But by now though, we should have plenty of time to get this ball going.

Tim Pickett:

I’m just saying that there are so many things along that pathway, along that supply chain. The small tweaks in the beginning.

Brent:

I’m pretty sure you guys have heard about the gerrymandering that went on with all the license being handed out. And I think there was some corruption in there. There’s been some investigating and there’s been found to be corruption.

Tim Pickett:

Yes. Not really publicized.

Brent:

These licenses were given to people that had no clue what they’re doing.

Tim Pickett:

Totally agree with this.

Brent:

Most of them.

Chris Holifield:

I’ve read about it in the paper, but we’ve never really talked about it on the podcast.

Tim Pickett:

Because nobody will come on. I’ve invited a few of these people on our podcast, I’ve decided not… So far, we haven’t named names of the people that I’ve invited on, but they don’t respond.

Chris Holifield:

Is it just because they don’t have the knowledge of growing. Is that really what it is? They get these licenses and then they don’t even know how to grow.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. I mean, they were in on the permitting process and they got their applications approved. There was actually growers that didn’t even plan on growing and were forced by the state to start to grow. The state went to them and said, “Okay, when are you going to grow?” And they were like, “Well, we’re just going to wait maybe a couple of years.” And the state had to tell them, “No, you’ve got to grow. This is part of why we give you a license.”

Chris Holifield:

Even though they rejected other people, that probably would have been growing right away.

Tim Pickett:

Well, sure. And you know what? We all complain, we don’t all complain. I don’t complain about Tryke but there’s plenty of complaints about Tryke in the marketplace, but God bless them. They got there.

Chris Holifield:

They got supply out there.

Tim Pickett:

They got supply out there, and they have been really great at getting people flower.

Chris Holifield:

And some of it is really good.

Tim Pickett:

Yes. Some of it is really good. And I think Zion has really stepped up their production, and they’ve got a lot more product going out. And other than those two, well who’s the other one you were talking about Riverside,

Brent:

Oakbridge.

Tim Pickett:

Oakbridge.

Brent:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tim Pickett:

Right. And how much grow we need. If somebody is out there listening from Oakbridge, we want to have you on the podcast,

Chris Holifield:

Please, please reach out to Tim or myself.

Tim Pickett:

Because we need more growers to come out and tell the story. It’s a gap in our knowledge, other than like Zion and Tryke.

Brent:

Right.

Tim Pickett:

We know them and we know Wholesome. We know their story, and we know their process of trying to get their grow going. But other than that, I don’t really know.

Brent:

It’s going to be tough because they literally have to be willing to like set their ego aside and admit to the fact that they’re trying to learn. They don’t know how currently, and they’re trying to learn, which everybody does. I get, it’s a process, but that’s, what’s going on. Only a few people know how to do it. And yeah, you’re right. People do complain about these big companies coming in and taking the market, but they can deliver it, they know what they’re doing.

Tim Pickett:

Right. And we need a delivery. Okay. You know who I forgot that I really feel bad about because I’ve met with them a past couple of weeks, is Dragonfly.

Chris Holifield:

Yeah. They got good stuff coming out.

Tim Pickett:

They have great product and they have really tried to do it all in-house and do it in a right way. Like you say, they’ve had to learn all of this stuff as they go, but they brought in really good people in the beginning to help. But Dragonfly stepped up. They had product, they had flower, faster than anybody. So kudos to them too.

Brent:

Absolutely.

Tim Pickett:

They’ve really tried their hardest to get product on the shelf for people.

Brent:

Yeah.

Tim Pickett:

I liked those guys a lot too.

Chris Holifield:

Yeah.

Brent:

Have you had them in? I know…

Chris Holifield:

The Dragonfly?

Brent:

Yeah.

Chris Holifield:

Oh yeah, episode three.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah Narith. Narith came in episode three. And in fact, we’ve been talking to him about coming on again because it’s their one year anniversary. They actually won one of the best cannabis companies to work for in the nation.

Brent:

Wow.

Tim Pickett:

They’re women owned and minority owned. They do a ton for their employees. They’re a very good place to work. And my experience with Dragonfly now that I know them a little bit better, it does seem likely like to do things in-house, their own. They have a plan. They work hard for sure.

Brent:

Yeah. That woman is a business woman. She knows what she’s doing. And she is a shark. She is a go getter. She gets it done.

Tim Pickett:

She does. Yeah. Hoang.

Brent:

We should bring her on.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. I would love to have her on. She has a fascinating story. Her family story. Yeah. And I’ll let her tell it, but definitely she needs to come on because their family story and Dragonfly as a whole has done a lot, I think, for the market and helping things get going.

Chris Holifield:

Where do you see the future of Wasatch Extraction? Just bigger machines pumping out more carts and whatnot, or where do you see this all headed?

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. Well Like I said, we’re purchasing equipment to get other processes going. We just want a lot of different products going out. We want the live rosin, we want the bubble hash. We want the shatter. Just we want to bring the best to the Utah patients, is really our main goal.

Chris Holifield:

What’s the best way, is there a way that people, that listeners, can find out more about your products or like Fruit of Life, I guess, to find out about the carts and availabilities and stuff, I guess on Instagram, would be the best place.

Brent:

I’ve been slacking on the Instagram, but I do plan on putting more time and energy into that and definitely trying to get back all the messages. So that’s probably the number one place they can interface with us right now. Just send us a direct message on Instagram. We’ll do our best to get back to you guys, we just have a few employees. So a lot of us wear multiple hats. And when it’s time to process, we’re processing. And when it’s time to fill, we’re filling. And then in between, we’re trying to do some social media stuff and stuff like that.

Tim Pickett:

It’s awesome to hear this whole thing.

Chris Holifield:

Do you guys ever need like temp workers or anything? Man, I’m always down to like learn a few things here. Send me a message, say, “Hey Chris, are you busy this weekend?”

Brent:

Do you ever want to come by and take a tour? Let’s have you guys out.

Tim Pickett:

We want to see. Yeah, come and we can post it on our social too. And we can show people how a vape cart’s made.

Brent:

Make sense.

Tim Pickett:

I want to see-

Chris Holifield:

Are you in the Salt Lake here or where?

Brent:

We’re right around the corner.

Chris Holifield:

No kidding.

Brent:

Yeah.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. We’re coming for sure.

Brent:

Pleasure. Let’s do it.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. Look for how to make a vape cart video.

Brent:

There you go.

Chris Holifield:

Do you still run into a lot… You probably don’t run into as much. Remember when vape carts got a bad name, they were dirty you know. I mean, they still kind of have a bad name if you get street ones and stuff, but did you deal with much of that on your end or not really?

Brent:

I mean a hundred percent because our number one selling product is a vape cartridge and we were planning on producing that product when all that was going on. And from what I took from everything I learned about that situation was, it was a really quickly diagnosed to a limited source of black market cartridges that were putting, what was it, Vitamin E?

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. Vitamin E acetate.

Brent:

Exactly.

Tim Pickett:

But there has been some concern that like MCT oil or stuff like that. I mean, are there things that Wasatch has said, “Look, we will not put that in a vape cart because it’s dangerous.”

Brent:

A hundred percent. Yeah. We didn’t even want to mess around with it. We don’t put MCT in our carts. It’s literally pure distillate with very minute amounts of terpenes added to it.

Tim Pickett:

Okay, cool.

Brent:

But it’s pure distillate. Other than that, we didn’t want to mess around with any of that popcorn line junk that was going on.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. So just keep it as clean and as pure as possible.

Brent:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tim Pickett:

And I mean, it seems like everybody has gone that direction, whether or not anything else that was being added was totally safe or not.

Brent:

Right.

Tim Pickett:

And that as well, not added at all.

Brent:

Yeah. I mean, people are putting all sorts of crazy stuff in there. And who knows what that turns into once you put it under a temperature. It could turn into a toxic chemical that could be harming you.

Tim Pickett:

That’s how the vitamin E came about. It’s a food grade product. It’s totally okay to ingest, but once you heat it and you inhale it into your lungs, bad news. And it just wasn’t tested for that.

Chris Holifield:

Probably another good reason to get product from somebody like yourself. Product that had been extracted from you, at like beehive or whatnot, because you know, it’s safe.

Tim Pickett:

Don’t you think that’s true too? I mean buying, I’ve never done it, but I’m sure there are cartridges off the black market you could buy.

Brent:

Oh yeah.

Tim Pickett:

That are like, why would you do that? That’s pretty risky.

Chris Holifield:

Hey. I bought an off the black market carts.

Tim Pickett:

Have you?

Chris Holifield:

Well, way before Utah… I mean…

Tim Pickett:

Well, and that’s what you had to do and flower too. Right?

Chris Holifield:

Oh yeah.

Tim Pickett:

Everybody’s buying everything.

Brent:

No. I’m all for complete legalization of all substances, but I’m all for regulation. They need to be safe and they need to be administered the right way. And if something goes wrong, then you can help people. And you don’t have the people leaving their friends on the floor dying because they’re scared of going to jail themselves. Things that are kept on the black market, you’re literally… That money is going to gangs and cartels and stuff like that in big part. Those are the people you’re supporting. And I mean, there’re little guys and stuff like that, but it’s like, “If you guys want to do this right. Do it out in the open, we can all talk about it. We can all do it right.”

Chris Holifield:

And I think that’s happening more and more.

Brent:

A hundred percent. Yeah.

Tim Pickett:

It’s been fun having this conversation. I’ve learned a lot today.

Chris Holifield:

Anything more you want to talk about before we wrap this up, or anything more that you wanted to make sure to bring up or…

Brent:

I’m just excited that what’s going on in Utah right now is going on. I thought it would be much further down the line, so it’s just really cool to see it all happening. And I get that it’s baby steps. A lot of people are really frustrated about certain things, but it’s like, “Hey guys, it’s a process.”

Chris Holifield:

Yeah. It takes time. It takes time. I mean, any state, even Colorado took years before it established, yet you can go there and get cheaper products. You can go there and get more product, but they’ve also been around a lot longer and they’ve…

Tim Pickett:

They’ve worked this out. Those thanks Brent.

Chris Holifield:

So give us time. Give us time So go connect with, with you guys and see what you got going on.

Brent:

@TheFruitOfLifeUtah is our Instagram. We do have a Facebook as well, but we’re most active on Instagram, but definitely give us a message. If you guys have anything you are looking for and you want us to produce, please let us know. We’d love to make that happen.

Chris Holifield:

Very cool.

Tim Pickett:

Well cool.

Chris Holifield:

And then utahmarijuana.org/podcast is where you can listen to this podcast and listen to all the back episodes because there’s well over 50 of them up there now.

Tim Pickett:

Yeah. There’re episodes there. You can find us on YouTube at Discover Marijuana. All the podcasts are being uploaded. I think we’re more than halfway through uploading all of those. So if that happens to be your method of choice, your delivery method, right?

Chris Holifield:

And then connect with us on social media too Instagram, Facebook, The Whole Nine Yards, shift with utahmarijuana.org, Instagram, whatnot.

Tim Pickett:

And go take a listen to I Am Salt Lake.

Chris Holifield:

Oh yeah, I haven’t talked about that for a few episodes on my other podcast. I Am Salt Lake. Iamsaltlake.com, go listen that. Go back to episode 420 with Tim. Tim was on episode 420. That was a fun episode.

Tim Pickett:

That was fun.

Chris Holifield:

That was good with him. That was over a year ago.

Tim Pickett:

Where this whole thing got started.

Chris Holifield:

Yeah. So, well thanks a lot, Brent.

Brent:

Thank you guys for having me. It was awesome.

Chris Holifield:

Absolutely. Let’s bring you on down the road.

Tim Pickett:

All right everybody. Stay safe out there.

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