How Deseret Wellness deals with patients with letters [07:45]
Will Deseret Wellness be doing home-deliveries? [13:11]
What makes the current legal situation is still confusing [19:56]
Jeremy discusses Deseret Wellness’s products and supply and online menu [20:44]
Where Jeremy sees Deseret Wellness in five years’ time? And what he does for fun [24:15]
What Deseret Wellness tries to do for their patients and how to contact them [31:34]
Deseret Wellness’s goal in coming to Utah is to provide effective and affordable cannabis-based therapies in a safe and welcoming environment. Their dispensary is clean, bright, and welcoming. Jeremy Sumerix is their marketing president.
Jeremy Sumerix is a Utah native who was born and raised in American Fork. He attended Southern Utah University, whereafter a career in retail took him all over the country.
He was in the cannabis industry for several years, working for the national retailer MedMen in Florida, where the cannabis industry is vibrant.
When he was approached by Deseret Wellness to establish outlets in Utah, he leaped at the chance to come home and bring cannabis therapy to the patients in Utah.
Deseret Wellness was granted a license to open in Provo, and a further license to open in Park City which will happen later this year, or at the beginning of January 2021.
Their Provo site is really accessible to all parts of Provo as they are located right off the Center Street exit. They’ll be putting up a 35-foot green cross pole to signpost the dispensary soon.
In setting up Deseret Wellness, Jeremy found the Utah County Commissioner very easy to work with. Though the population is smaller, Utah residents are generally law-abiding and straightforward, which makes the illicit cannabis market weaker in Utah County. This bodes well for legal outlets like Deseret Wellness.
Deseret Wellness is pleased with how quickly they’ve been able to increase their number of patients, with a steady flow coming into the dispensary. Luckily, patient numbers have not been so large that they’ve had to turn people away.
Cardholders can walk in, and because preregistration is not required, they can have their product within ten minutes.
Jeremy acknowledges that patients with letters of recommendation are a bit more difficult. As per state mandate, letters have to be verified, particularly if they have been getting their product from another pharmacy.
Due to various factors, there may be delays in this regard, which makes it sensible for patients with letters of recommendation to preregister, because then everything can be verified. Within the course of 2-3 business days, they will be notified and will be able to collect their product without any delay.
Desert Wellness holds a strictly retail license and does not have a grow license. It sells whatever products are out on the market, but they consider themselves homegrown with Jeremy having grown up just down the road, and most of their employees being from Utah. The company is a member of the Utah Chamber of Commerce. They aim to be a friendly neighborhood pharmacy to the community.
The timing of their opening was challenging. The opening of the pharmacy was complicated by software and legal issues, with the State requiring that all verification be done by a pharmacist.
However, this has now been dealt with and is no longer an issue, though they are still working with the State and other pharmacies to streamline the process. Desert Wellness is the southernmost dispensary in the State of Utah, and will soon be opening an outlet in Park City as well.
Deseret is just about ready to launch curbside and in-store pickup for patients that have been registered and bought from them before. When the State finalizes the regulations on home delivery, that service will be included as well as it is envisioned to be big, especially in the Park City outlet.
Home deliveries will be big, particularly because the issuing of licenses for cannabis outlets has been capped. Jeremy understands the rationale behind this strategy and believes that these conditions might be relaxed once the industry has proved that it is safe and viable, something he is very keen to do.
They are very excited about their two different outlets and are hopeful that they’ve found a model that is scalable.
The second outlet, Park City, will be very different from their Provo dispensary with a more downtown vibe as it is smaller and expected to be busier.
Seasonality is expected to have an impact considering its proximity to the Sundance Film Festival.
Jeremy confirms that it is legal for out-of-state patients, who have a card authorizing them to obtain medical cannabis, to get their medication in Utah. However, the rule has not yet been established with the parameters being clearly set out.
Deseret has a lobbyist who is working directly with the state to figure out how to pin down those regulations, although it is not yet clear when that will happen.
People only have to be able to prove residency in order to get a temporary card so that they can get their medication. Their identity also has to be confirmed and there is a list online that clarifies this.
Jeremy confirms that Deseret Wellness has a significant number of out-of-state patients, and an out-of-state license does not disqualify them as long as they can prove Utah residency. Dual residency also simplifies matters in this regard.
There is a shortage of information pertaining to the establishment of legal outlets for cannabis products and the rules in this regard are very technical. This is bound to happen if it’s a new system where you have a controlled substance to which you’re allowing access for the first time.
Jeremy confirms that there is an ‘extra layer of careful’ in Utah, which he respects. Because there are a lot of people who don’t have much experience in the cannabis industry involved in making the rules, it is going to take a bit longer.
Regarding local supply, Jeremy says that he really can’t complain. They haven’t had any product issues with partners, growers, or processors. The only thing they haven’t yet been able to sell has been concentrates because so few processors are actually producing them.
In regards to flower, they have not run out in general, though the favorite strains tend to go quickly. They have a diverse selection of vapes. They also have CBD bombs, oral sprays, and tinctures.
Jeremy would love to be able to offer their patients gel capsules, but nobody seems to be producing those yet. He has seen those in different markets as they are very popular in some of the medicinal markets. In New York, for example, capsules are very popular and there is a notable demand for them as they are very effective as regards dose control and reliable time of relief compared to other intake methods.
Jeremy believes that if they could get concentrates and gel capsules for their patients, it would be very much to their patient’s benefit.
Jeremy emphasizes that they post a limited online menu, as they currently have a landing page. However, their fully operational website will launch in the next few weeks when they will have a more robust menu online.
They don’t want patients to see something online and then find it has been sold out when they come into the shop, so they are currently deliberately posting a limited menu that is updated every day to ensure availability.
Though he’s been too busy in setting up Deseret Wellness to think too far ahead, Jeremy says that to be in an industry where you can literally change somebody’s life has been enormous for him, and he sees himself working in the cannabis industry indefinitely.
Deseret Wellness is very specifically catered and tied to Utah, so he does not expect them to do something outside of the State. However, Jeremy himself would love to be involved in bringing cannabis products to other markets like Montana or Texas at some point. He emphasizes that establishing Deseret Wellness is very much still a learning curve for him.
Coming from Florida, he plays a lot of golf! He grew up skiing and snowboarding, which he has also taught, so he wants to get back into that.
Jeremy holds a different view than most people, in that he thinks that legalizing cannabis in Utah at the federal level will take much longer than expected. Federal Tax regulation 280E allows federally recognized business entities to write off certain expenses like payroll, rent, etc.
However, anybody that operates in the cannabis space doesn’t get those exceptions. 280E says that businesses in the cannabis industry have to pay the same taxes that every other business pays, but they get zero tax relief. This also affects the cannabis industry with things like COVID relief which was not extended to the cannabis industry.
Jeremy thinks that because the government makes a lot of money on the cannabis industry paying taxes, and not getting any discounts because of 280E, there is very little incentive for them to legalize it. They would make less money off taxing the cannabis industry if it were legalized and therefore qualifying for discounts.
Another difficulty lies in the fact that it is a difficult industry to regulate. When you legalize something, you’re going to get more regulation. So Big Pharma and other businesses will still fight the legalization of the cannabis industry and the rescheduling of a Schedule 1 product, he believes.
On being asked how California seems to have made legalizing cannabis work, Jeremy points out that there is a huge illicit market in California, with many dispensaries being illegal though they look legit. They are not paying taxes.
To address that, California is starting to give businesses a QR code to be displayed on the door, that customers can scan to verify that the business is a licensed dispenser. Getting licenses is expensive, and it brings regulation and taxes in the form of 280E with it, which pose further obstacles to legalizing it.
However, Jeremy does not want to be negative and points out that great strides have been made. The ultimate goal is to have a legalized cannabis industry at the federal level in Utah, but he does believe it will take longer than is generally expected.
Jeremy emphasizes how delighted he is to finally be here for the patients of Utah County. The clean and pleasant environment at Deseret Wellness has been created to make their patients feel comfortable. Deseret Wellness want to recognize that cannabis is medicine, without overtly reminding people that they are sick. When people walk in the door, they must feel warm and welcome.
Address: 22 North Draper Lane, just off the Center Street exit in Provo towards the mountain. In the next couple of weeks, they’ll have a 35-foot green cross pole sign right out front and they’ll be unmissable!
Their website is deseret-wellness.com, and they are also on Instagram and Facebook. They’re currently open Monday through Saturday, from 11am – 7pm.
Who is Pedro Padilla-Martinez? [00:08]
How WholesomeCo’s online ordering system works [00:53]
What is a pharmacy agent? [03:37]
Pedro’s senior thesis on arrests in Utah [07:10]
What Pedro is able to recommend to patients [14:57]
How Pedro uses medical cannabis [15:46]
Pedro’s favorite types of patients to help [17:46]
Pedro’s thoughts on high-THC products [24:01]
What Pedro considers to be the biggest hurdles for patients [25:57]
Pedro’s continuing cannabis education [31:12]
Where Pedro sees himself in five years [33:28]
Pedro’s favorite cannabis strain [33:59]
Pedro is a pharmacy agent at WholesomeCo dispensary. WholesomeCo is located at 580 W 100 N in Bountiful.
Pedro is a recent graduate of the University of Utah, with a degree in political science and sociology. When he first started college, he did not know what he wanted to do after graduation. While in college, he became interested in the history of cannabis and cannabis policy. In fact, he completed an internship for Proposition 2 in Utah, collecting signatures for the petition. Pedro also interned for the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML).
To use WholecomeCo’s registration system, you will need to first register with them as a patient. You can begin the process by emailing them at hello@wholesome.co.
A pharmacy agent is similar to a “budtender” role in other states. As a pharmacy agent, Pedro directly interacts with patients, helping them choose products and walking them through the transaction process.
When a patient initially chooses a dispensary, they will meet with a pharmacist first to discuss dosing, delivery, and their Qualified Medical Provider’s (QMP) recommendations. After this visit with the pharmacist, patients will begin working with Pedro.
While in college, Pedro wrote his senior thesis on what arrests look like in Utah. Pedro felt that racial disparities with cannabis and medical cannabis had not been properly addressed in Utah. The question he set out to answer with his senior thesis was if there are indeed racial disparities with cannabis arrests in Utah.
Pedro sourced information from the US Census Bureau, FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program, and Utah’s Department of Public Safety.
Pedro found that African American communities and native American communities are especially disproportionately affected by marijuana arrest rates.
While researching Hispanic or Latino arrest rates, Pedro found that the data was harder to gather. The FBI classifies the Hispanic or Latino community as an ethnicity, not a race. Thus, Hispanic or Latino communities are typically classified with whites. This becomes problematic in states like Utah with a large Hispanic or Latino population.
As a pharmacy agent, Pedro cannot provide specific recommendations to patients. Instead, he relies on the pharmacist for recommendations. For example, if a patient has a specific recommendation from their pharmacist, Pedro will stick to that recommendation.
However, Pedro will provide his own personal experience with products by explaining to patients how a product has helped him with certain symptoms.
Pedro uses medical cannabis for chronic pain, specifically for pain in his knees from years of skateboarding.
Pedro really likes helping new patients of WholesomeCo. He initially thought he would have a hard time with new patients, but enjoys helping new patients understand what information is accurate or inaccurate. He also enjoys explaining products to patients, breaking down how it may help their symptoms. For example, he may suggest a new patient use a product with Delta-8-THC instead of the typical Delta-9-THC, as Delta-8-THC can provide a more mellow experience.
Pedro has worked with patients who have the belief that the higher the THC amount, the better the product. Pedro will show patients that even though a product may have a lower THC amount, it may have additional cannabinoids that could provide better relief of their symptoms.
Pedro believes the two biggest hurdles are the bureaucratic process of becoming a patient and issues they have with MJ Freeway software system. They have experienced issues with the system going down, or not having accurate patient information, making it difficult to order products for patients.
Recently, Pedro has been learning more about processed products. Many of his new patients do not want to inhale or vape flower when first using Medical Cannabis, and processed products such as gummies and cubes can be an easier way for them to consume cannabis.
An issue with processed products is they typically lose their cannabinoid and terpene profile. However, recent full-spectrum products have been developed that keep these profiles intact, such as products from Boojum.
Pedro still sees himself in the industry, becoming more of an expert on cannabis.
Pedro likes Sundae Driver from Dragonfly Wellness.
Chris’s experience on Facebook [1:08]
How Chris believes he got the virus [2:51]
How cannabis helped Chris while he was sick [09:56]
COVID symptoms for Chris’s kids [14:23]
What doctors told Chris about leaving quarantine [15:01]
Chris and Tim’s thoughts on the need for cannabis delivery in Utah [22:04]
Tim’s thoughts on medical cannabis letters [26:32]
After being diagnosed with COVID-19, Chris decided to share his journey on Facebook and Instagram. He quickly began to receive messages from other Facebook users, claiming that he was lying or that his symptoms were just a “bad cold.”
Chris has three stepchildren who were in Texas during the summer. He believes that the virus was brought into the home when his stepchildren came back home after their summer in Texas.
His symptoms began as fever and chills. He was scheduled for a doctor’s visit, but because he was not feeling well he decided to reschedule his appointment. When he called to reschedule, the doctor’s office suggested that get a COVID test. Chris received the diagnosis 24 hours later.
After his diagnosis, the COVID-19 virus began to hit him hard, especially in his lungs. He was experiencing shortness of breath. His wife was able to get him oxygen tanks to help him breathe. His whole body ached and he was experiencing sweats at night, so much so that he would have to change his shirt often because it would be drenched in sweat.
Chris had a nurse call him every morning to check on him. He was told that if his lips start turning blue, to call an ambulance.
Chris says that what he was most worried about was that he did not know which direction the virus would take. His young children also became sick. Although Chris and his wife assumed that they contracted the virus, they did not want them to go through the painful testing process to get an official diagnosis.
For Chris, he found cannabis helped with reducing the anxiety he was having about the virus. Also, using cannabis tinctures helped him to sleep better and to open up his airways.
Chris experienced extreme exhaustion while he was sick. It was difficult for him to just walk up the stairs from his basement. Cannabis also helped ease his aches and exhaustion.
One of Chris’s kids had congestion. His other kid had a sore throat and a fever.
Chris was told by doctors that 8-10 days after initially showing symptoms he would no longer be contagious. He was also told that he would be immune to the virus after 90 days.
Chris’ COVID experience has highlighted the need for cannabis delivery in Utah. For cannabis patients who are required to quarantine, without a delivery option there is no way for them to get access to their medicine.
WholesomeCo dispensary will be offering home delivery. Curaleaf will also be offering home delivery.
The obstacle to home delivery is payment options. Most dispensaries run on cash. However, WholesomeCo has implemented a system called Hypur, which provides electronic payment options.
Tim is seeing an increasing amount of letters being issued to patients. Unfortunately, these letters expire at the end of the year and will have to be converted to cards. This potentially will leave thousands of patients without access to cannabis. Learn more about how to convert your letter to a card here.
The problem, as Tim sees it, is a lack of education with Qualified Medical Providers (QMP). Specifically, the EVS system is a complicated system and QMPs are unfamiliar with how to use it properly to get their patient’s cards.
The team at UtahMarijuana.org will be creating educational events for QMPs to help them use the EVS system and get their patients set up with cards. Follow UtahMarijuana.org on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to learn more about these events.
I’m going to my first Utah dispensary today. A dispensary in Utah, I can’t believe it. I guess I should say pharmacy — that’s what I keep hearing from those in the biz. That’ll be a hard one to shake. Anyway, yesterday I went and got my recommendation letter from Utah Therapeutic Health Center. It was like that scene in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory walking out of their office with that letter in hand. It really felt like I had a golden ticket. No longer a criminal, baby! I’m still on a bit of a high as I drive to the pharmacy today. Because this is my first visit to a Medical Cannabis dispensary, I have to meet with a pharmacist before I can buy anything. This seems like a waste of time to me — I’m not a newbie, but hey, I can buy cannabis from a dispensary in Utah? I’m so elated it’s legal that I don’t care much about the hoops I have to jump through.
I walk in, and it’s nothing like I’d expect. It’s super modern and clean looking. I’ve certainly been to my fair share of shady dispensaries in other states. In Utah, they’re not like that. This place looks like Apple and Starbucks joined forces and sold cannabis. I check in and take a seat on a chair in the lobby. To take my mind off my nerves, I admire the tree to my left and wonder how they keep it so green, thinking back to the half-dead, browning leaves on everything in my own home. After a few minutes, I hear my name called by a woman in a white coat. She greets me warmly and introduces herself as my Medical Cannabis pharmacist. I take a deep breath. Here we go.
She leads me to a desk and I sit across from her. She asks me my name and birthdate and starts typing on her computer. When she frowns slightly, my fight-or-flight kicks in, thinking I must be about to be kicked out. Before I can bolt, she asks me if I have a card or a letter. I hand her my letter and she smiles. “You have a great QMP.” I breathe a sigh of relief and agree wholeheartedly. She then tells me that she’ll have to start from scratch since she can’t see my QMP’s notes in the system until I have my card. Of course, I worried for nothing. I’m still getting used to this legal cannabis thing, can you tell?
When she asks me if I have ever used cannabis before, my palms get a little sweaty. I’ve used cannabis daily to treat my colitis and anxiety for years, but every time I’ve
told a doctor that, I’ve been chastised. Since this is the whole point of the dispensary consultation, I swallow my fear and say, “Yes, every day for more than six years,” and quickly try to read her face. She seems completely unfazed and asks me how often, what form, etc. She’s clearly heard it all before. It’s pretty freeing to talk openly about this. She mentions that anxiety is not a qualifying condition but that she’ll keep it in mind when we create a treatment plan for my colitis.
I tell her about the one medication I am still taking for my colitis and all the nasty side effects that come with it. She brings up the possibility of tapering off of that and moving completely to cannabis. That’s always been a pipedream of mine, but I’m not always in a place I can smoke a bowl, so I’m tied to the ease of a pill. My pharmacist tells me about cannabis capsules they sell in this location and I’m intrigued. Anything to get off this brutal pharmaceutical that’s eating away at my insides.
While we finish up, my Medical Cannabis pharmacist asks me if I have any questions about the laws in Utah. I work in a public school, so I ask her if it’s okay for me to bring my medicine 
with me to school. She tells me that Utah law prohibits any Medical Cannabis use on or within 100 feet of a school campus. Geez, glad I asked! It makes sense, I guess. I make a mental note to draw up a schedule to medicate so that I won’t have to bring my cannabis to school with me.
My pharmacist starts to tell me about cannabinoids and terpenes, and my brain starts to hurt. She must have been able to tell because she quickly goes on to say that terpenes are what I taste and smell and that cannabinoids are the chemicals in the cannabis plant that make it so awesome.
She then goes on to tell me that smoking is not allowed. What?! Then why even sell flower?! She pulls out something called a dry herb vaporizer, this little metal bar that heats flower into vapor. I’m skeptical, but she assures me that this is the safest way to inhale flower. Apparently, I’ve been burning off some of the good therapeutic stuff with my lighter! I figure it’s worth a shot and do some mental math — I decide to pick up cannabis capsules next time and trade it out for a vape. I keep my eye on the one in my favorite color as my pharmacist goes over my treatment plan.
We decide that since I already know flower helps my condition, we’ll stick with that. My Medical Cannabis pharmacist gives me a few pamphlets and documents that go over the medical use of cannabis and more about the dry herb vaporizer I’m going to buy. She asks me if I know what happens if I take too much THC. I laugh and
tell her yes, thinking back to a time in my early smoking days. Back then, I just waited it out, but my pharmacist tells me to try adding some CBD to the mix. I make another mental note to find the CBD vape I lost in my car a few days ago.
I thank my pharmacist for her time, and she tells me how I can reach her if I have any problems. Very nice touch! My QMP said the same thing. It makes me feel good knowing that I have all of these people I can call if something doesn’t feel right. I feel supported entirely by my little team of Medical Cannabis professionals.
Finally, I head up to the counter. I can’t believe I’m actually about to buy cannabis legally in Utah. At a dispensary, no less! I thought we’d be the last state to legalize this. I see smiling faces at the registers and I pick the budtender closest to me. They’re all so friendly and helpful right away. I don’t know why I was ever nervous about this.
I buy a 3.5 oz jar of Sundae Driver and a 3.5 oz jar of Karat Cake. I have a sweet tooth, and these both sounded delicious. I’m excited to see what they taste like in my new vaporizer. My budtender recommends I try popcorn buds: smaller buds for a fraction of the price. It’s all going in my grinder anyway, why not save some money? I’m grateful and a little surprised at the tip — I expected to be upsold at dispensaries, but these guys seemed to be looking out for me.
As my budtender tells me the cost of my cannabis, I freeze. Oh no. I forgot dispensaries only take cash! I’m going to have to come back, how embarrassing. As I explain my dilemma, they tell me about a digital way to pay called Hypur. They explain that it’s like Venmo for cannabis purchases, and that’s all the justification I need. I hate carrying cash anyway. After creating my account, I pay and am back out in my car within a few minutes.
It’s crazy, I couldn’t believe how easy this all was. I have to admit, having been to a dispensary before, I was initially a little irritated I had to meet with a pharmacist. But I’m so glad I did! I feel very informed and empowered after speaking with her. I’m armed and ready to take control of my own health for the first time in years. It feels so good, I tear up a bit on the freeway on my way home. I’ll definitely be back here soon.
Are you ready to make a change? Give us a call at 801.851.5554 or schedule online today.
How Vanessa deals with frustrated patients [03:02]
More about Vanessa’s role as a Wellness Associate [05:11]
The product selection at Dragonfly Wellness [07:04]
Dragonfly’s new payment system [10:07]
Dragonfly’s drive-thru sales [13:28]
How Vanessa helps letter holders get their Medical Cannabis card [15:11]
Patients dealing with law enforcement [20:53]
Spending habits at Dragonfly Wellness [21:41]
Vanessa’s thoughts on adult-use [23:29]
More on Vanessa’s background [28:15]
Vanessa’s future in the cannabis industry [30:21]
Vanessa is a Wellness Associate at Dragonfly Wellness. She has been in this role since February 2020 and was there for the grand opening of Dragonfly Wellness.
Vanessa has a background in customer service, so she has experience dealing with frustrated customers. She also understands that even though patients may be frustrated, they will be “leaving with a bag of sunshine.”
Vanessa considers her work at Dragonfly Wellness more than a job. She has firsthand experience with Medical Cannabis improving her own issues with joint inflammation and sensitivities and has found it to be more helpful compared to other pharmaceuticals. She loves that she is now able to help others on their own journey.
In Utah, Wellness Associates are not to provide recommendations. However, as a patient herself, she can share from firsthand experience how the medicine works for her. For example, she can say that an indica strain helps keep her alert, relaxed, creative, and in a good mood. Or, she can refer a patient to another co-worker who may have an experience different from hers. However, legally she cannot recommend a product to treat a patient’s condition.
Although there are struggles with maintaining inventory, Vanessa has seen more consistency in the past month. The team at Dragonfly Wellness is for the ability to be a vertically integrated company, where they can grow their own product. This has allowed them to supply other pharmacies in the area with much-needed products.
The system is called Hypur and it provides an ACH transfer for pharmacies across the country.
When you enter the pharmacy, you will log in on your phone with a secure access code. Once the system has authenticated your phone and verified your location, your customer info is sent to Dragonfly’s POS system. At checkout, you can easily pay with Hypur. Or, you can split a payment between Hypur and cash.
This information can also be used for online ordering, which will make the online checkout process easier.
Dragonfly Wellness has not seen significant sales from their drive-thru option. The majority of sales are still from walk-ins.
When Vanessa sees patients who have medical letters, she reminds them that their letter is only valid through the end of the year. She will encourage them to talk to their medical provider about getting their letter switched to a card (check out this article for more info).
Vanessa has heard stories from patients about getting stopped by law enforcement and having their medicine confiscated, despite having all the necessary documentation with them. Vanessa believes that the solution is more education to remove the stigma from Medical Cannabis.
Vanessa believes that spending habits vary by person. But, typically she sees patients spending at least a couple hundred dollars a month. For patients looking for more variety, their costs can be higher than someone who buys similar products each visit.
Whether it’s for a severe life-changing condition, depression, anxiety, or sleep, because of the many benefits cannabis has, Vanessa believes that it should be available to everyone.
Her personal experience with cannabis involved in treating psoriatic arthritis. Instead of getting injections with bad side effects, she used cannabis to control her condition.
Vanessa always wanted to be involved in the cannabis industry. She started her career in customer service, which provided the insurance and benefits she needed to treat her medical conditions.
After Medical Cannabis became legal in Utah, she began to talk more about the benefits of it to friends and family. This led her to create an Instagram account (@loch.ness.toker) to get more involved in the community.
After her third FMLA leave of absence last year, she decided to leave her customer service position and go all-in with the cannabis industry.
Vanessa will be starting a community program that provides education to help remove the stigma of cannabis use. She will also advocate for adult-use legalization in Utah.
News about a pharmacy opening in Provo [00:37]
What is the Compassionate Use Board [05:07]
More about Jack’s back pain and nausea [07:53]
How Jack’s parents feel about his use of Medical Cannabis [10:53]
UtahMarijuana.org’s partnership with Empathetix [17:36]
Jack’s advice for someone considering cannabis [27:58]
Deseret Wellness is a new Medical Cannabis pharmacy in Provo. For new patients with medical letters, you may register with Deseret Wellness to use their products. For patients with letters and who are already registered at another pharmacy, you’ll need to convert your letter to a card before visiting Deseret Wellness.
Jack is a 19-year-old Medical Cannabis patient. Jack and his family moved to Utah from California when he was 17.
Jack uses Medical Cannabis for back pain and nausea. He was introduced to cannabis in California. While in California, Jack became interested in the medical benefits of cannabis, consuming content, and watching videos of kids who have been helped by cannabis.
Jack was able to get a Medical Cannabis card in California. The process of getting access to Medical Cannabis in California was easier than in Utah. In California, the process is all online. There is no need to get approval from a Qualified Medical Provider (QMP). In Utah, Jack had to see a QMP to get approved for a medical letter. He will still have to get approval from Utah’s Compassionate Use Board for a full Medical Cannabis card.
The Compassionate Use Board is a board of seven physicians. Some of them are advocates of Medical Cannabis and some are not. The board reviews cases of people seeking Medical Cannabis cards who are either (1) under 21 or (2) looking to use cannabis for a non-qualifying condition.
The team at UtahMarijuana.org has been helping patients go through the process of a Compassionate Use Board review. Providers create petitions on their patient’s behalf and provide the board with the necessary medical documentation.
Jack wakes up in the morning with nausea. Jack has also been diagnosed with scoliosis, causing daily back pain.
Jack’s father had a medical card in California. He explained to Jack the benefits of cannabis and that it could be something that helps him. However, Jack’s mother had a difficult time dealing with his use. However, as Jack continues to provide his mother with education about Medical Cannabis, she has begun to see its benefits.
Jack’s parents will have to be more involved in Utah, as patients under 21 must have a parent or guardian purchase Medical Cannabis from a pharmacy.
Empathetix has partnered with UtahMarijuana.org to provide all of their QMPswith education and resources. They will also help Empathetix patients complete their 90-day card renewals through Utah’s EVS system.
Jack primarily uses concentrates when consuming THC. Concentrates are made from a fresh plant that is frozen and pressed. This compression process produces a light oil, which can be vaped. Concentrates typically have higher amounts of THC. There is also less smell when vaping concentrates compared to flower.
Locally, you can find concentrates at WholesomeCo while supplies last
Jack will also use indica flower for pain. If he is looking for mood improvement, he will use sativa flower.
Jack thinks that cannabis is a good alternative to taking opiates, especially because you cannot overdose on it.
Mandi’s thoughts on the lack of cost protections in the cannabis industry [03:07]
Why CBD is classified as a drug by the FDA [06:54]
Why Mandi is looking to transition to focus on hemp [08:20]
How hemp fiber is grown [12:04]
Even though hemp is legal in the U.S., why isn’t there more widespread use? [14:12]
Why Mandi started the Associations of Hemp Associations [21:41]
How to ensure you’re purchasing quality CBD [33:53]
Mandi’s hemp education efforts [38:50]
Tim’s thoughts on the demand in Utah for Medical Marijuana [46:00]
Utah CBD Collective on YouTube
Mandi is the co-founder of Utah CBD collective. Mandi is passionate about the hemp and cannabis space. While spending the last four years at B2B networking and events for lead generation, she became aware of the pain points in the cannabis and CBD industry such as access to banking, payment processing solutions, and advertising options.
Perishable Agricultural Commodities Act (PACA) provides protection in the agricultural industry and acts as an insurance policy for farmers. For example, if you agree to buy 500 bales of hay at $300 a bale, but later come back to the farmer wanting to change the contract because the market price dropped to $90 a bale, the PACA act would protect the farmer from those losses.
However, in the cannabis industry, there are no protections for either side.
CBD is classified as a drug because CBD is used in Epidiolex, which is now FDA approved. This defaults all CBD in the U.S. to be classified as a drug.
Currently, CBD has a strong national representation. However, where Mandi believes that industrial hemp representation is lacking, which is why she is transitioning from Utah CBD Collective to the Association of Hemp Associations.
Mandi sees an opportunity with hemp helping drive economic growth with sustainable uses of building materials, building homes, plastics, fibers, etc. Thus, a goal for the Association of Hemp Associations is to lobby for the hemp industry.
An example of a use for hemp is “HempCrete”, which is a concrete alternative that can burn at 7,000 degrees Fahrenheit under direct flame with no damage. Hemp is also mold-proof, making it a useful component for products such as drywall.
Other benefits of hemp include lower growing costs and a smaller carbon footprint (it requires one-twentieth of the water that cotton does.)
A hemp stock grows tall like bamboo. Thousands of plants can be grown on a single acre. Once grown, it is broken down, processed, and bailed like hay. Hemp can be further processed into fibers, plastics, oils, or construction materials like “HempCrete” or drywall.
While it is inexpensive to grow hemp, the cost to process hemp into usable materials can be higher due to the lack of processing facilities in the U.S., which is why the lobbying efforts of the Association of Hemp Associations are important.
The issue is the lack of manufacturing facilities in the U.S. Farmers can easily grow hemp on their land, but because there is nowhere for them to sell their crops, it does not make sense for them to invest in hemp.
Another issue is the lack of access to banking and advertising. For example, Google and Facebook prohibit advertisers from promoting cannabis-based products on their platforms. Without the ability for companies to sell hemp products at scale, not enough demand can be generated to incentivize farmers to grow hemp.
Mandi realized that cannabis and industrial/manufacturing industry associations and groups were divided by either product, region, or type of processing. An organization that brought together everyone involved with hemp was necessary
The goal of the Association of Hemp Associations is to provide support from the ground up for everything in the hemp industry, including building supplies, infrastructure, economic development, sustainability, and diversity. The Association of Hemp Associations will also focus on grassroots education on traditional broadcast and digital platforms.
Much of the textile and fabric manufacturing is done out of the United States. The low manufacturing costs come with a trade-off of child labor and human trafficking in those countries.
Bringing our supply chains back to the U.S would improve our economy and improve global child labor and human trafficking.
Products should have a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) and lab tests that show the quality of the product.
Mandi has done daily shows on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram with Utah CBD Collective, interviewing over 100 people. She has begun making the shift to hemp education with the Association of Hemp Associations.
Mandi also posts events on Eventbrite and LinkedIn.
Tim believes that the state will not be able to keep up with the demand for Medical Marijuana. Specifically, he believes that it will take 2-5 years for the state to catch up. Potential solutions could be opening up control to the cities or federal decriminalization.
Who are Richard and Chris? [00:57]
Richard’s thoughts on Utah’s medical classification of cannabis vs recreational [05:12]
The biggest challenge Chris and Richard have faced since opening WholesomeCo [5:51]
How WholesomeCo’s dispensary is designed [11:04]
More about WholesomeCo’s products and the grow operation [13:10]
Richard’s thoughts on beverages as a consumption option [15:53]
WholesomeCo’s vision for technology and user experience [21:29]
How patients can prepare for their visit to WholesomeCo [23:06]
How UtahMarijuana.org will help patients get from letters to cards [30:08]
Richard’s thoughts on the Utah cannabis community [42:49]
WholesomeCo’s diverse product line [46:17]
Richard Maloney and Chris Jeffery run WholesomeCo, a Medical Cannabis dispensary in Bountiful. Chris has a background in cannabis and served as the CEO of Leafly in 2017. Chris met Richard after a move to Seattle.
Chris and Richard are passionate about cannabis education. They believe that no one is an expert in cannabis because there is still so much to learn. They’re constantly testing and trying new ideas with the plant.
Richard likes the medical classification of cannabis. He sees cannabis as a way to improve well being and have a better way of life.
Richard is not against recreational cannabis use. He believes that anyone should safely be able to access this plant if they want to use it and that no one should be in prison for using cannabis.
Much of the difficulty has come with connecting dispensary point-of-sale systems to the state’s seed-to-sale tracking, MJ Freeway. The API integration for this system is not robust and makes it difficult for dispensaries to create an automated online ordering solution.
For example, WholesomeCo would like to have an online ordering platform for patients to be able to easily see a menu at their home, add products to a cart, and come to the store and pick up their product. However, the API system from the state makes it difficult to achieve this.
Chris and Richard do feel that Utah is on the right path and that the Department of Health has a great team behind them with the patient’s interest in mind. They believe that in one year we’ll be in a much better place.
During his time at Leafly, Richard had the chance to travel to a number of dispensaries around the country. This experience showed him how important the user experience is for dispensaries.
Walking into the WholesomeCo, there is a large curved wall and waiting area. The large waiting area is critical because of the lack of distribution of Medical Marijuana in the state.
Once inside the dispensary, you’ll see a cleanspace with a wood toned counter (think a mix of Apple and Starbucks) and a chalkboard that contains a menu of products. All of the products are laid out in the countertop where you can clearly see what is available.Four or five friendly people are behind the counter ready to help patients and answer questions.
WholesomeCo has a retail license and a cultivation license. Patients will start seeing the WholesomeCo products on shelves in about two weeks (at the time this podcast was recorded). They will then begin ramping cultivation efforts over the next four to six months to really expand their cultivation production, not only for the dispensary but also for the wholesale market as well. The team is currently deciding between two locations for their cultivation facility.
Richard would love for WholesomeCo to be the company that brings beverages to the Utah market. He believes that, from a dosing perspective, beverages are one of the best methods for a patient to consume cannabis because dosing is easier to manage. Also, he likes that you would not have to use a vaporizer to consume THC. He thinks the beverage market is going to be huge for cannabis.
The dispensary is focused on upholding a promise to improve the registration and purchase experience for WholesomeCo customers. This involves taking a digital, technology-first approach to building the dispensary. The COVID-19 pandemic has helped create urgency in achieving this mission, but the team has always believed in this direction.
Richard and Chris recommend patients register at WholesomeCo.com before visiting the dispensary. WholesomeCo then has to verify that this is a legitimate letter. This information will allow the team to set everything up so that, when the patient arrives, they get them straight into the shop. They ask that even cardholders register online before arriving to keep their records accurate.
The team at UtahMarijuana.org can work with the state and your Qualified Medical Provider and walk you through the process of getting your Medical Marijuana card. This will be a free service to Medical Marijuana patients. We understand how confusing the system can be and we want to ensure patients do not lose access to the medicine they need at the end of the year.
One of the biggest issues Tim sees is that only a small percentage of Qualified Medical Providers (QMPs) in the state understand the process of getting their patients’ cards. The few that do, including the team at UtahMarijuana.org, have worked to bring QMPs up-to-speed with the process.
The team at UtahMarijuana.org is committed to helping patients and QMPs during this process and, along with 1-to-1 training, will be adding more educational materials to the website to close this training gap for QMPs.
After December 31, 2020, no letters will be issued. When a patient sees their QMP and gets approved, they must register with the state and get their official Medical Cannabis Card before they will be able to buy their medicine. Tim feels like this will push QMPs to learn the process to help their patients.
Compared to some of the other markets that he has worked in, Richard believes that the community in Utah seems very willing to work together. In other states such as California or Oregon or Washington, everyone acts as a competitor. However, in Utah, he has experienced a more collaborative, team effort. Specifically, he credits Dragonfly Wellness for how helpful they have been.
WholesomeCo will be the first medical cannabis pharmacy in Utah to have a hash rosin product. They will have limited quantities (about 100 units available), so sales will be a first come first serve basis.
WholesomeCo will also be the first to carry PLUSH gummies, from Zion Pharmaceuticals, which will have a mix of delta-8 and delta-9 cannabinoids. They’ll also be carrying capsules, a product of Boojum and Tryke.
Think back to science class. Specifically, think about all that you learned about the endocannabinoid system (ECS) and marijuana treatment. Doesn’t take too long, does it? That’s because you probably learned about as much as I did: nothing. And I went to medical school!
Okay, so that’s not completely true. In medical school, they teach about cannabis as a drug of abuse. They also teach that it’s federally classified as a Schedule 1 drug and that “we need more research” on the benefits. It’s clear to me now that what we all learned in school, from way back to grade school in many cases, needs to be discarded. It truly bears no relationship to reality.
In my opinion, “we need more research” is a cop-out. There have been thousands of studies on the plant, its side effects, dosing, compounds, and most importantly, its safety. The fact is, it’s somewhat difficult to conduct research with cannabis. However, I would argue that this isn’t due to its federal classification, but due to the complexity of the research that would need to be conducted.
Effective research on cannabis is similar to doing research on different tomato plants. You’d have to study the effect on different body systems depending on the type of tomato, the way it’s processed, how it’s cooked (or not cooked), and how it’s consumed. Ketchup is useful, tasty, and goes great on hotdogs, but it’s night and day to a fresh tomato picked off the vine. The same is true for cannabis.
Israel, for example, has one of the world’s largest cannabis labs on earth. In their studies, they’ve found that one strain processed into one batch of tincture works to prevent seizures in one individual, while the same brand as a different batch or strain doesn’t. The 113 cannabinoids (CBs) and 400 other compounds within the plant need to line up perfectly, in just the right proportions, to have the same effect.
Most medical providers didn’t learn about the endocannabinoid system in medical school. We only discovered it in the 1980s, around the same time that we discovered cannabinoid receptors. In fact, all humans and complex animals have an endocannabinoid system 
that works to maintain homeostasis. The ECS affects memory, digestion, motor function, immunity, inflammation, appetite, pain, blood pressure, bone growth, and the protection of nerve and brain tissues, just to name a few.
When THC binds to CB-1 receptors in your brain, you begin to feel the psychoactive effects or feel “high.” Because there are very few CB-1 receptors in your brain, an overdose of cannabis won’t cause breathing problems or death, as an overdose of other medications would. CB-2 receptors live in your immune system. Together, the ECS is constantly working behind the scenes to maintain balance in your body.
Now, that’s a lot of scientific jargon that may not make a lot of sense to you. Maybe it does. But if you need it broken down further, check out this Zion Medicinal educational video about the endocannabinoid system.
Western-trained medical providers have been taught that one medicine does one thing and treats one illness or symptom. Do we throw away cannabis as a viable treatment option because we don’t have years and years of research behind it?
Lucky for us, the public has made this decision for us with a resounding “Hell no!” As medical providers, we need to take a step back and see that the way we’ve been taught to treat patients has played a role in them wanting to take matters into their own hands. We’ve been pushing pills and procedures on patients for generations. This has led patients to start experimenting with alternative 
treatments. Through that experimentation, they’ve experienced firsthand that the endocannabinoid system exists. They’ve seen that cannabis can and does work to treat many illnesses and health concerns. They’ve gone around the medical community and taken their health and treatment into their own hands. It’s time for us to get on board.
Most importantly, remember to forget every preconceived notion you have about Medical Cannabis treatment. Find a qualified medical provider (QMP) and follow their recommendations closely to find your just-right dose. Everybody’s endocannabinoid system and genetic makeup is different and requires specific dosing and delivery for a beneficial experience.
So here we are. Welcome. Medical Cannabis is legal in Utah and this is what you should know according to Tim Pickett.
