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What to Expect in This Episode

Medical Cannabis patient and advocate Carlos Lopez is Chris and Tim’s guest for episode 54 of Utah and the Weeds. Like so many other patients, Lopez has a fascinating story of how he came to Medical Cannabis as a prescription opioid user.

Lopez was born in 1988 and grew up in the DARE era. [04:41] He even completed the DARE program in middle school. What he learned from that program kept him away from drugs until an accident during his junior year in high school.

Lopez suffered an injury to his eye after being shot in the face with a BB gun. [06:33] The BB penetrated his eye socket and caused nerve damage. His doctors put him on ibuprofen in the weeks following surgery to remove the BB. [08:39] The ibuprofen eventually gave way to opioids, which doctors were gradually increasing to compensate for Lopez’ tolerance.

Some 16 years later, he still suffers debilitating migraines and nerve pain. He was introduced to cannabis by a friend during his senior year in high school. Lopez says he found instant relief. He began using cannabis to self-medicate and has since stopped using opioids altogether.[10:27]

It was the Utah in the Weeds podcast that introduced Lopez to the idea of getting his Medical Cannabis card late last year. [12:45] As an avid user, Lopez is also committed to research and education. He follows all the growers in Utah along with the products they are producing.

Above and beyond his story, Lopez spoke with Tim and Chris about Utah’s supply problem. [27:51] The trio briefly talked about how the problem will only get worse as more people get their cards. There was also a brief discussion on some of the different products and delivery methods Lopez uses. [43:51] It was a great discussion from start to finish.

Resources in This Episode

Podcast Transcript

Chris Holifield: So yeah, let’s welcome everybody out today to this episode of Utah in the Weeds. My name’s Chris Holifield.

Tim Pickett: And I’m Tim Pickett, Medical Cannabis Expert in Utah and a provider here in today’s episode.

Chris Holifield: Oh man, I am so excited to play this one.

Tim Pickett: We were waiting for this for a while, right?

Chris Holifield: Yeah, this is with Carlos Lopez. This is a Utah Cannabis patient here in Utah. This guy — he’s the biggest advocate.

Tim Pickett: He’s the number one member of the Utah Cannabis Fan Club.

Chris Holifield: But in a good way.

Tim Pickett: He really is.

Chris Holifield: This guy’s got such a great story. I was so excited to have him on the show and share it, just listen this conversation and you’ll know what I’m talking about.

Tim Pickett: This was one of my favorite conversations. He has a really, really good story. Talking about his-

Chris Holifield: I don’t want to give too many spoilers, though.

Tim Pickett: I know, right. Talking about his injury and how that affected-

Chris Holifield: How cannabis really saved his life.

Tim Pickett: And how he got back into cannabis, or how he got into cannabis in the first place is just fascinating.

Tim Pickett: Okay, so a couple of housekeeping things.

Chris Holifield: 4/20’s coming up on-

Tim Pickett: 4/20 is coming up next Tuesday.

Chris Holifield: So depending on when you’re listening to this, this comes out the Friday before 4/20. So if you’re listening to this before 4/20, we’ve got some events.

Tim Pickett: That’s right. So one event that I’ll mention is a patient drive that we’re doing in partnership with EDM Cannabis Shop, CBD Shop on 7100 South and State Street. If you want an appointment for this, it’s going to be food trucks and music and there’s a pretty steep discount. This is not a listed event online. You’ve got to call their shop to get an appointment. EDM Cannabis Shop, 7100 South and State. Check that out if you really feel like you need to get in for a card evaluation, you can do that.

Chris Holifield: Then the big events at Dragonfly.

Tim Pickett: Dragonfly.

Chris Holifield: They actually posted some on Instagram here. I don’t know if you wanted to mention it Tim, or I can just even read the little flyer here. It just says, “Utah Canna Fest. It’s a community event featuring Utah Cannabis industry leaders, local artisan booths, food trucks, 4/20 deals, raffles and giveaways,” and then they’re going to introduce the Utah Patient Subsidy Program, brought to you by the Utah Patient’s Coalition, that’s Mario’s group, isn’t it?

Tim Pickett: Well, it’s Desiree Hennessy-

Chris Holifield: That’s right, Desiree Hennessy.

Tim Pickett: Desiree Hennessy runs that group. She’s going to announce that program in partnership with, and there’s more than Dragonfly involved in the Subsidy Program, than just Dragonfly, but they are definitely the biggest, they sponsor the opening of the event. We’re going to give away a couple of free visits in the raffle, so some free evaluations.

Tim Pickett:

There’s going to be some other really good gifts, so come down.

Chris Holifield:

And we want to recording some of the podcast, so if you see Tim or I and you want to say a few words, say “Hey, I’d love to say a few words on the podcast,” and then that way we can record with you.

Tim Pickett: That’s right.

Chris Holifield: I don’t know exactly what we’ll be doing with the podcast. But I have a few ideas.

Tim Pickett: I don’t know what time we’ll be recording but I’ll be there most all of the day.

Chris Holifield: Says this is 11:00 to 7:00 and they’re right downtown, 711 South State Street. Right across from Sapa, if you know where that is, the old Sears building downtown.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, that’s going to be an exciting event. And then I think all of the all of the pharmacies have discount programs surrounding 4/20, kind of the cannabis holiday, Cannabis Christmas.

Chris Holifield: Cannabis Christmas. Anything else going on with utahmarijuana.org that you want to discuss?

Tim Pickett: We could open up, we could just mention it. We’re going to open up our Provo location for evaluations starting May 1st, again, so Utah County will have just more access down there. All kinds of fun things going on, just stay tuned to the podcast.

Chris Holifield: And utahmarijuana.org is Instagram-med to go follow you guys there to see what you guys have got going on. Utahmarijuana.org/podcast, go there. We’ve got 53 other episodes up there, so I know it’s a lot but there’s some good content up there. You can learn a lot about the program here in Utah, you can learn a lot about the people here. But there’s a lot of good information there.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, it’s a great place to go. I’m excited for people to listen to this.

Chris Holifield: Yeah, Carlos Lopez, let’s get into this one. Like I said, he’s a cannabis patient here in Utah. He’s got a great story about some different pain issues that he had to deal with and how cannabis has really helped him take the bull by the horns, so to say, and take life on.

Chris Holifield: So anyways, let’s get into that conversation. Here we go.


Chris Holifield: Your first time you used cannabis, how you got introduced to it, let’s go back there for you.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, so as I was saying, I’m a ’90s kid, born in ’88. So the first time I was introduced, I’m ”just say no” era. I grew up in grade school in DARE program. They embedded that in my head. I did that before I started class, I did that… there was an after program, you did that almost on a daily. And I got the t-shirt with the lion, graduated.

Chris Holifield: I remember the DARE t-shirt.

Carlos Lopez: Uh-huh. For some kids it was probably whatever, but I was only in fourth, fifth grade. It stuck. In my head, I’m thinking this is the evil weed. The government, like I was saying, the whole reefer madness. That was in my head. That was a mental thing. It was a mental thing. It was, “No, stay away. Smoking’s bad.”

Chris Holifield: So, of course, you believed it.

Carlos Lopez: I believed it, right. As an adolescent, right. So I’m growing up, middle school, high school goes along. I stayed away from it. I hung around with kids that did it. “It just doesn’t do anything for me,” that was my cop out, “It doesn’t do anything for me.”

Chris Holifield: Did you grow up here in Utah?

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I grew up right here in West Valley, Kearns.

Chris Holifield: So that’s why I was kind of curious, the area. That makes — I mean, Utah, I could imagine Utah, especially.

Tim Pickett: That’s an interesting way to put it, right. “It doesn’t do anything for me.”

Carlos Lopez: That was my-

Tim Pickett: That’s your go-to, right?

Carlos Lopez: That was the way I-

Tim Pickett: I remember-

Carlos Lopez: Instead of just say no, because the DARE program was “Just say no.” And that worked too, but by the time I-

Tim Pickett: But that doesn’t work in some of these… It’s like these kids have… It’s a little bit of peer pressure. It’s not like direct pressure, it’s like you want to fit in, you want to be part of the group.

Carlos Lopez: Definitely.

Tim Pickett: And that’s an interesting way to do it. I haven’t heard that. But I remember kids in high school and college saying that to me. Now, I’ve got to go back and think, “Huh, was that just you not wanting to do it?”

Carlos Lopez: No, that was just from being young and remembering the program and just sticking to it. I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought I was doing the right thing and doing good at school. So school goes along and it wasn’t until it was the end of my junior going into senior, I had an accident. I was shot in the face with a CO2 pistol, and the BB penetrated my left eye socket and it rolled behind my left eye, and it rested there. And it wasn’t until my mom took me, a week later, from when the swelling went down to take X-rays, that we saw a little dot in my skull.

Carlos Lopez: The doctor’s like “There’s a BB in there. We’ve got to take that out.” I was scared. I was at that time, I don’t want you to cut my face. And, “No, no. We can do precision. We can easily pull your eye out so far and we work around it, put you out.” I said, “Okay.” We made the date, and it happened.

Carlos Lopez: I still have it to this day, the little BB jar, plastic jar with my X-ray. That’s actually what I took when I went to Empathetix to get my stuff for the first time. That was the moment where my life changed because from there, ever since that surgery, from waking up, they did great. They did a great job, got it out, they were recording it but I don’t want to watch it. I have a weak stomach so I can’t watch stuff like that, so I didn’t watch the video, but I took the BB and the X-rays.

Tim Pickett: Right, I mean you’ve got to have something.

Chris Holifield: How long ago was this?

Carlos Lopez: ‘05. Yeah, to answer your question, where you started, this was in ’05 this happened.

Chris Holifield: So 16 years ago.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, 16 years’ish ago and I was put on steroids and cortisone shots, because I used to have migraines. Ever since that shot, I’ve had these horrible spike migraines and this pressure that builds up, because on this left side of my face, when the BB hit, there was nerve damage, so it goes like down this along the side of my face. So I have this outside nerve pain, almost if you could imagine the tip of a knife, but 1,000 of them throughout that area. And then on the inside, it triggers the migraines and the headaches, so it’s like between the two of them, it’s almost unbearable.

Chris Holifield: So what were you using for pain then?

Carlos Lopez: At that time, they were putting me on opioids, like pain pills. I was taking the lower prescription, because I was starting off with over the counter, Ibuprofen. It wasn’t cutting it. From there, the doctor put me on some lower dose Loratab and then the pain was still throbbing and it was just gradually going. The doses were increasing, the opioid amount was getting more, I don’t know if you call it more potent?

Tim Pickett: Yeah, you build up tolerance.

Carlos Lopez: It was like over, for me, it wasn’t until the end of high school my senior year that after doing the pills for almost a year and it would affect my digestive system, I wasn’t able to use the restroom like I normally would. It would affect my appetite. I just was…

Chris Holifield: Were you bedridden?

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, absolutely. I was numb… I would turn myself off. I almost feel scratchy when I’m taking my medicine. Just not myself. I was like, “This is not me.” I just didn’t like who I was becoming over that year.

Tim Pickett: What people don’t understand is that you walk in here. You look, there is no physical sign that you have this, that you’ve had this injury, or that you’ve had this opioid prescriptions. It’s not visible. And people forget that.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah. It wasn’t until like I said, like you said the tolerance builds, and eventually but it doesn’t stop the pain, because I get this building pressure, where it’s almost like a hot iron mixed with a sledgehammer whacked against your head, this is when the migraines trigger.

Carlos Lopez: And then obviously I can tolerate the knife pain more than that. On the outside, but so it wasn’t until after the shots and the pills that a friend of mine growing up with, one of my best friends actually, he had knee pain playing football. Anyways he used to use cannabis and smoke. Weed back then, we’d call it, or bud whatever.

Carlos Lopez: And it wasn’t until then, we were hanging out and he was, “You know what?” And I was having an episode and I didn’t have my pills with me. And he’s like, “Look, try this dude.” At the time I was already almost done with school. I was thinking, “Oh, what the hell. It seems to help. He’s my friend, he’s not going to steer me the wrong way because we grew up together. He’s my best friend.”

Carlos Lopez: And he had some kind of OG or something, I can’t remember if it was a Kush, and that was my first introduction to real cannabis, like full inhalation and I remember hitting that flower and it was just like, just relief. If you can imagine things felt tight and gritty and it was just like things soften and relaxed. Just that pain, that pressure built up and that iron hot just faded.

Chris Holifield: So when he let you use cannabis, were you familiar with the term medical cannabis, at all?

Carlos Lopez: Not at all.

Chris Holifield: You were just used to it kind of as a recreational thing.

Carlos Lopez: 100% DARE program, just say no. This is evil weed.

Tim Pickett: But you hadn’t done any research on it or anything.

Carlos Lopez: Oh, other than like growing up and what the school taught us, no.

Tim Pickett: You’re just introduced to it-

Carlos Lopez: So I may be a little ignorant in that aspect, I guess I could say.

Tim Pickett: But that’s-

Carlos Lopez: But I just thought they were teaching us the right thing, because it was school. I don’t know.

Chris Holifield: You probably haven’t had a ton of opportunity to talk about your story, I would imagine.

Carlos Lopez: No. It’s been secret.

Chris Holifield: Yeah, well, I mean it’s-

Carlos Lopez: This is honestly the first time I’m really opening up.

Chris Holifield: Well, thank you.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, we appreciate that, and I think vocalization the story to yourself sometimes, really makes a big impact on how you’re hearing your own story out loud and you’re like, “Oh, my God. This is real.”

Chris Holifield: You said you got your card a year ago?

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, so it was towards the end of last year, I finally was able to be legal. Visiting Empathetix and doing research and actually what got me to it was your Utah in the work, following your IG handle [crosstalk 00:13:01]-

Tim Pickett: Oh yeah, @utah_marijuana_org.

Carlos Lopez: I was starting to hear your podcast and I was starting to tie two and two. I was like, okay yeah. I started learning more from these people like I was talking about, with Zach, with Mario going way back, and I was like, “Okay, I needed to do research. I’m paying for insurance, what am I doing?” But I guess insurance doesn’t cover it anyway.

Tim Pickett: Right.

Carlos Lopez: I figured dealing with what I have with I have the medical records I have from my incident to the surgery to the post surgeries to the script of the papers that they have me trying out. The A’s, B’s, and C’s that don’t work.

Chris Holifield: You have enough documentation.

Tim Pickett: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Carlos Lopez: I get it, you can’t physically see it, but mine’s all internal.

Chris Holifield: So are you off of all of opioids?

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, absolutely. It was then. From that moment that I tried that whatever it was, I think it was OG, I can’t remember, Skywalker, whatever it was. I remember him saying, “OG Kush,” it was love at first sight. It was all the relief without the icky side effects that I get from pharmaceuticals.

Tim Pickett: Instead of feeling worse, you felt better.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I felt better. I didn’t have, like I said, that throbbing and that iron sensation from my chronic headaches, and I also, this is before my accident but I’ve had chronic insomnia, ever since I’ve been little. I just… it’s just the way it is.

Chris Holifield: As do we all-

Tim Pickett: You’ve got the magic pill, right?

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, so it just seemed to solve so many things that these pills can’t really do, in the long run. And it seems like those, not just harm you but they kill you. So I figured this is like… I started to do more research and look into the plant more and there’s still way more I need to learn, but figure out THC and CBD and all these other ones, like CBC and CBG and CBN and THCV and THCA and all this, it keeps going. The list goes and goes.

Carlos Lopez: There’s so many medicinal benefits that were… so eye opening. I was just in shock. I was like, “Wow, this is what the government’s been repressing (from) us, all this time.”

Tim Pickett: It does seem like that, doesn’t it?

Carlos Lopez: They’re keeping us from this natural, alternative medicine.

Tim Pickett: When you tried in 2005 and then you start using it and basically your options are smoke flower?

Carlos Lopez: Well, yeah. At the time, basically I had a friend that his cousin basically had what we would call the plug, the connect. And I had flower on me at that time… We had great, different varieties, great strains. Big, beautiful buds. I think they were coming from California or Oregon, I can’t remember at the time. Whether it was you wanted flower, dabs weren’t as big back then. It was mostly just flower. And then a little bit later on, maybe five, 10 years as down the line is when carts maybe started to pop up.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, it doesn’t seem like I ever saw a cart until 2015.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah.

Chris Holifield: I remember the first time I ever saw a cart.

Carlos Lopez: It was weird.

Chris Holifield: I was like, “get out of here.” I just thought it was, “Oh, my gosh.”

Carlos Lopez: Like what the heck.

Chris Holifield:

All I knew was you put flower in a little glass pipe.

Carlos Lopez: That’s what I was doing.

Tim Pickett: It was either a glass pipe or what you could make.

Chris Holifield: These are cartridges, get out of here! Now, they’re the hot thing. Now everybody’s got carts.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, so honestly just between that and obviously as time rolled on and I’ve been working, like I said, it’s a steady job. I’m fortunate that I’ve had a consistent living, 15 now plus years and-

Tim Pickett: Do you believe cannabis helped you?

Carlos Lopez: Absolutely. Cannabis saved my life.

Chris Holifield: It helped make you a functioning member of society.

Carlos Lopez: It’s given me back things that I wouldn’t ever have that the pills they give you bedridden, they turn you off from life. You’re numb. Where cannabis, almost puts life in me. I’m able to work longer, better, more efficient. I can be around my family more often and not hurt.

Chris Holifield: And when you mentioned insomnia.

Carlos Lopez: I can sleep.

Chris Holifield: There’s nothing worse than getting up the next day and not sleeping, dude like, “Oh man, I’ve got an hour’s sleep. Now, I’m expected to go to work and be nice to my fellow employees.”

Carlos Lopez: Yeah.

Tim Pickett: Nice, cordial, obey the rules.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah.

Tim Pickett: Now, you have… So it’s not really just the pain relief, it’s the added benefit of now you sleep better, so you actually have less pain because you sleep better and you can recover better.

Carlos Lopez: Yes, I get a better night’s sleep between being able to combat my insomnia and the pain, I’m forever grateful for this plant.

Tim Pickett: Tell me about your tolerance. Your tolerance at the beginning, obviously pretty low. Everybody starts out pretty low.

Carlos Lopez: Oh yeah, for sure.

Tim Pickett: What’s your use look like? Has it gone up and down?

Carlos Lopez: It’s been a rollercoaster really. Honestly, there are some times that I’ve done tolerance breaks even, believe it nor not, as much as you think I’m consuming, there are times-

Tim Pickett: No, the reason I ask because I don’t know your use-

Carlos Lopez: No, no, right. Just to give you an idea of what it looks like.

Tim Pickett: Right, like I’m assuming that it is going to go up sometimes, go down sometimes.

Carlos Lopez: It is, definitely. The more I find the more I use, for me, for example, I like to start my day with dabs, I don’t know what it is, but from waking up and having sore joints and your muscles, it helps get things a little bit loose and relaxed, and between I get my dab in me. Because I’m working on the office, I work a lot of the keyboard, the mouse, I take my balm, I’d always rub my balm on, that’s really effective. It helps my wrist and my right shoulder and I’m ready to go. Between my good dab, and if I don’t have a dab, then definitely flower is what I’m resorting to.

Carlos Lopez: Then gummies. You’ve got to be careful, because sometimes I overdo it and it can be too much at once. And you’re done. Like I’m sorry, “I might have to clock out for the day.”

Tim Pickett: We always recommend that people start without-

Carlos Lopez: Low and slow, for sure.

Tim Pickett: Like don’t start with edibles. They’re hard to adjust to.

Carlos Lopez: It is.

Tim Pickett: I know-

Chris Holifield: Well they creep up you, man.

Tim Pickett: They creep up on you and you get two hours in and you’re like, “Wow, if this gets any worse, I’m in trouble.” Well, you might be an hour in and you might be thinking, “Wow, if this gets any worse,” like you said, “I’ve got to clock out.”

Tim Pickett: But they’re so convenient because they’re very discrete.

Carlos Lopez: Absolutely.

Tim Pickett: They’re relatively healthy from a use standpoint and a side effects standpoint. But they’re a little tricky.

Carlos Lopez: They are.

Tim Pickett: And there’s been a ton, like… man have you seen? It seems like the feeds are all about these drinks and these added things, you’re adding to a drink.

Chris Holifield: Oh, for like THC?

Tim Pickett: Yeah, THC.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I’ve seen that. I think is it Select that has those new drops? I think I was actually-

Tim Pickett: Yeah, you add them to, it is, Curaleaf owns that company. They’re not available in Utah. So for any listeners-

Chris Holifield: Yeah, I was going to say, I haven’t seen these.

Tim Pickett: You can’t have drinks in Utah, and you can’t technically have edibles in Utah. You can have gelatinous cubes-

Carlos Lopez: That’s the gummies we get.

Tim Pickett: Which is the gummies you get, which as of April 1st, they won’t be coated in sugar.

Chris Holifield: Wait, wait. Tell me more about these. Because I think we talked about that.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, we talked a little bit to Rich Oborn on this.

Carlos Lopez: How is that going to work with all these sugar-coated ones?

Chris Holifield: Why can’t they have sugar?

Tim Pickett: I don’t think it’s the Department of Health. It wasn’t their rule. I think it was the Department of Agriculture. But because you can have gelatinous cubes, but you can’t have edibles, my understanding is the sugar coating makes them more candy like and so is more attractive to kids-

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, the youth.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, more tasty. So they’re going to essentially individually wrap every single gelatinous cube to keep them from sticking together, because they only use-

Chris Holifield: You know, I think there’s a lot more things to worry about like the candy aisle in a grocery store or-

Tim Pickett: Right? Or the sugar consumption of American children…

Chris Holifield: Like come on, let’s-

Carlos Lopez: Get real.

Chris Holifield: Yeah to me there’s a lot more to worry about than if my gelatinous cube has some sugar on it.

Tim Pickett: Maybe we should just educate people to buy a lock-in case, put their medicine into the locked cabinet and keep it safe.

Chris Holifield: Right.

Carlos Lopez: So, there you go.

Tim Pickett: Likely just as effective. We like to hound those guys on little things like this. And I’m sure they think the same thing, they’re like, “Ah, I don’t know but it probably seems like the right thing to do to adjust the rules.”

Tim Pickett: Anyway, sorry, we got off topic.

Carlos Lopez: No, no.

Chris Holifield: That’s the joy of a podcast.

Tim Pickett: But the use, right? Have you gotten up to the point where you’ve been using an ounce a week? Or, an ounce a month?

Carlos Lopez: No, but what I do is like to mix it up. So I used to, before becoming legal, I used to really just stick one way. I’d use heavy flower, maybe sometimes I’d switch it to dabs. I kind of flip flopped to be honest. And then once becoming legal and now having these options, and I experiment, so I like to branch out. I did start here at Wholesome, that’s where I brought my letter because I was down on Dover Street, at Empathetix. It was seven, 10 minutes away. So I didn’t realize I was married to Wholesome, you know, until I got my card, at the time.

Carlos Lopez: So it’s the farthest from me, because I’m all the way in West Valley.

Tim Pickett: Oh, shoot.

Chris Holifield: Because you had a letter.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, because I had a letter, but I immediately had already paid the fee before walking out of Empathetix because I did the online fee, so it was already pending to convert. But it still took like 10, I can’t remember how long it was, but it was a little bit less than two weeks, but it felt forever.

Tim Pickett: Yeah. And it does, and there are going to be, so that everybody knows, they are going to upgrade the system and they passed a rule to allow us to give cards immediately. It won’t be effective until later this year, October, November, but then you’ll go back to this system where you can leave your QMP, you can go right over. Like here. We’re right next to Wholesome, recording. You could leave here and you could walk right through the door, check in and boom, purchase. Just like the letter program.

Carlos Lopez: That’s something to look forward to.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, with access though. You can kind of switch it up. You can buy a little. You don’t have to buy a ton.

Carlos Lopez: They kind of opened the floodgates, if you will. Not like that, but it really introduced a whole new realm of products and varieties. I didn’t have that opportunity before. And so I do, I’m like that trial and error guy. I first try it, if it works then I will stick behind it. If it doesn’t, then axed off the list.

Chris Holifield: Do you have a favorite strain?

Carlos Lopez: Definitely. Overall? Or, here?

Chris Holifield: Something that you’ve into been lately, both.

Tim Pickett: Both.

Chris Holifield: Overall.

Carlos Lopez: Overall, I’m a huge OG fan. Anything really OG, Skywalker OG from Perfect Earth seems to really kick me good. Hit me where I need to be.

Chris Holifield: I haven’t been up to Perfect Earth yet.

Tim Pickett: No, we need those guys to come on the podcast, but they’re growing some pretty good product up there, too.

Carlos Lopez: It does. I’ve been keeping my eyes on them. They have a pretty interesting, beautiful looking grow, so we’ll see what they produce.

Tim Pickett: Yeah. And you follow pretty much all the growers and you know when the drops are happening.

Carlos Lopez: That’s right, yeah.

Tim Pickett: So essentially we could just follow you, and we would know.

Carlos Lopez: I wish.

Tim Pickett: You’d be like the kayak of the cannabis industry. You’ll keep track of it all for us and you’ll let us know.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I don’t mind at all helping. I mean honestly, ever since this, not just this podcast, but with the whole program we have and the IG, I get DM’s daily, to this day. People I don’t know, and they ask me, “Hey, how was that?” Or, “Hey, what was this?” Because, certain things that I have tried that people have known about. Things that may have worked for me, and that didn’t work for me.

Chris Holifield: That’s right because on your Instagram, you post all the stuff you’re getting.

Carlos Lopez: I have had most of them that are definitely ones that work for me and I think there are very, very few let known didn’t cut it, basically. The majority of them, yes. They’re winners, for me anyway.

Chris Holifield: What about your family and friends, man? What do they think about your cannabis use?

Carlos Lopez: They’re, honestly, they think it’s probably the best thing that happened to me. From the ones, at least the closest ones that’ve seen me at my darkest time, back then, fully support what I’m doing and what’s going on in Utah as far as progressing hopefully, legalization’s. Because everyone should have the right to enjoy this God-given plant. No one should be deprived of this. We’re all dealing with something in some form or fashion.

Chris Holifield: Well, yeah exactly. It’s kind of like who said that? One of the pharmacists I think that we talked to said that we chatted with them but then they were like, “We all kind of use it medicinally, even if we’re not -”

Tim Pickett: All use is medicinal.

Chris Holifield: Yeah, because you’re using it for a reason.

Tim Pickett: People that if you interview cannabis users, you’re using it for all kinds of things. You’re using it for the Saturday afternoon creative jam session. You’re using it when you paint. You’re using it to sleep, to suppress dreams if you have PTSD. Think of all the things, and this is all just something that somebody who has access to it, would just use it for, it’s almost like an instinct.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, exactly. No it is, absolutely.

Tim Pickett: You reach for something that helps you feel better, or and if it didn’t work, then-

Carlos Lopez: You move on.

Tim Pickett: You move on.

Carlos Lopez: I mean, that’s just the way it works. That’s the rules of logic, or nature of the law, however you want to say it, or put it. I’m just grateful for not just the platform but seeing how far Utah has come. It’s made me, at least happy. I know there’s a lot of people that aren’t happy and I get also DM’s of that, too. Don’t get it like it’s all sunshine, don’t get it twisted.

Chris Holifield: Do people DM you?

Tim Pickett: Oh yeah, they’re-

Carlos Lopez: Absolutely.

Chris Holifield: What kind of stuff? I mean, they think cannabis should be illegal?

Carlos Lopez: I’m mental. I’m getting bamboozled, you’re getting ripped off. Dah, de, dah, dah.

Chris Holifield: Okay, I didn’t know-

Carlos Lopez: So it all comes down to the price.

Chris Holifield: If they were saying-

Carlos Lopez: It all honestly comes down to not just the price, but I also understand and I can express their frustrations in a sense that I do think we need more cultivators. Eight isn’t enough, for our state. And seeing the new magazine, which is awesome by the way, by Cole. Shout out to Cole.

Chris Holifield: Faces, yeah-

Carlos Lopez: Awesome, Salt Baked City magazine, a beautiful layout showing all the pharmacies labeling on the addresses, numbers. But it’s not enough. What about all those rural areas, what about them?

Chris Holifield: Yeah.

Tim Pickett: It really is, like I’ve been thinking about Justice in St. George. They’re going to open in a couple of months.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I heard that? 4/20 maybe?

Tim Pickett: There’s going to be one… Oh, if they make it to… They’ve got a lot of work to do. Shout out to those guys, though. They could pull it off. But they’re the only place. You’ve got to buy there, or you’ve got to go up to Bloom and Cedar City.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah.

Tim Pickett: Who will open about the same time. I mean these are… There isn’t another industry that you would have that limited stock.

Carlos Lopez: No, not at all.

Chris Holifield: Well, St. George’s is full of old people so I imagine they’re all going to get their card.

Carlos Lopez: Definitely.

Chris Holifield: You’d think, right?

Tim Pickett: The more it gets legitimized the better it will be. And I think-

Carlos Lopez: That’s my hope. That’s my hope. And that’s what I get knocked down on all the time, too is because-

Tim Pickett: Really?

Carlos Lopez: Depends on when they’re like, “You need to put more pressure on so and so.” And I get that. You do need to do your part, but you can do easy things, like make some emails, make phone calls. We call could do that.

Tim Pickett: Sure and you’re not going to get it all the way.

Carlos Lopez: No, you’re never going to get your cake and eat it, too. Right, it’s all in good time. That’s my optimism is, in good time. I didn’t even think Utah would be legal, that I could be doing this right now. Like 32, 2020, I never thought this would happen. Even thinking back when I I visited all of our neighboring states, Cali, Colorado, that’s my favorite, that’s priceless. Oregon, New Mexico, Arizona. I’ve been all over just around us and everyone’s got their own sweet pieces of the pie, but Utah’s done something uncovering these extra cannabinoids.

Carlos Lopez: We could really do something here and changing I think the whole market as far as the medical industry.

Tim Pickett: Have you been watching that?

Carlos Lopez: Absolutely.

Tim Pickett: Compared to other states that are surrounding us, and this is something I guess I haven’t paid a lot of attention to is, are other states focusing on the medicinal qualities of the other cannabinoids.

Carlos Lopez: No, it’s just Utah.

Chris Holifield: Colorado’s more of a rec state.

Carlos Lopez: Correct.

Chris Holifield: They’re just saying, “Just sell THC. Just sell THC.”

Carlos Lopez: Well, between you, I love your and Blake’s show, I’m on that, on it like bonnet. Honestly I can’t get enough of it.

Chris Holifield: That’s a great show by the way.

Carlos Lopez: It’s amazing.

Tim Pickett: Thanks, it’s really fun to produce and we feel like it’s getting a little bit better as we go. And for listeners who don’t what it is, its Discover Marijuana on YouTube and it’s Blake Smith, from Zion Medicinal who is a bioanalytical chemist, knows a lot about the details.

Carlos Lopez: Oh yeah, he’s a cool guy.

Tim Pickett: He’s like the mad scientist, and I’m trying to make sense of it all, bring it back to usable-

Carlos Lopez: You’re awesome.

Tim Pickett: Usable info. But it’s a fun place for people to go, get more info, like legitimate. We talk about the good and the bad.

Carlos Lopez: Right, that’s what I like You guys do always bring the truth with what’s happening, not just with the plant but other… Shine a light with the laws and stuff and making sure we’re in the know’s and the now’s and being safe and things like that.

Tim Pickett: Right.

Carlos Lopez: Utah’s a little different than other medical states, that’s for sure.

Chris Holifield: Oh, yeah.

Carlos Lopez: Way different, shall I say.

Chris Holifield: But you know what though? The more I learn about these other states, I find out that there’s some other states with goofy stuff, too.

Tim Pickett: I know, we were talking about Florida.

Chris Holifield: Yeah, Florida.

Tim Pickett: Talking about how they were trying to limit the-

Carlos Lopez: THC.

Tim Pickett: … percentage of THC to 10%.

Chris Holifield: Yeah, I heard about that. I was like, “Get out of here.”

Carlos Lopez: Crazy.

Tim Pickett: And then in Georgia, the law that they’re working on now will allow people to buy two weeks worth of flower, that’s it. You can buy a two weeks supply and then you have to… So you have to purchase a lot, which is hard for people who live far away from a pharmacy.

Chris Holifield: Yeah, who decides what’s two weeks supply? That’s the problem.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, exactly.

Chris Holifield: So back to you were mentioning how we need more than eight growers in Utah.

Carlos Lopez: Yes.

Chris Holifield: Did you run into, especially you’re a pretty heavy user of cannabis, or use it pretty regularly. Did you run into any problems with supply? I still run into problems with supply.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I do every day. I do. To this day, I run into problems with supply. Sometimes I’ll try some flower that I really find that meshes well with me, and then they won’t have it some days. And-

Chris Holifield: Or ever again.

Carlos Lopez: Or ever again, for that matter. “Oh, find us on the next batch, three or whatever months from now, or whatever.” Then obviously, I’m more concentrates, that’s my thing. As I love my concentrates, and I’m grateful with what we have now, but it just seems like we need so much more. Or it just needs to be so much more-

Chris Holifield: You need a lot more product to make more concentrate.

Carlos Lopez: And that’s what limiting the… It’s just all tying hand-in-hand where it’s just like…

Tim Pickett: Yeah, obviously it’s gotten better. As the cultivators have started growing a little bit more, the supply has gotten better.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, it has, but you’re choking the chicken where you’ve got to feed the geese, kind of thing. Well, excuse my language.

Tim Pickett: No, no. But you’re-

Carlos Lopez: I just wish there was more, I think would allow them to focus on longer growth than turning over these 60 day grows, which I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with. They’ve helped me, but they could be getting so much more from the plant maturing more than these speed cycle things, which still work. I’m not knocking that.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, but they’re doing that because they feel like they have to.

Carlos Lopez: Right, they’re putting them in a corner, right, and I get their aspect, too. You are kind of-

Chris Holifield: Speed growing the weed?

Carlos Lopez: Right.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, shortening the…

Carlos Lopez: There are certain strains or genetics.

Chris Holifield: Now educate me. Is that not good to speed grow things?

Tim Pickett: It depends. You’re growing a cultivar that is going to be able to harvest fast because it’s going to be harvest, fast. Does that make sense? You’re growing a cultivar that you can harvest fast because of the quickness with which you can harvest it. That’s the only reason you’re picking that strain.

Carlos Lopez: Or what’s going to yield the most.

Tim Pickett: Or yield, and in the long run, that doesn’t work because that isn’t necessarily the best medicine.

Carlos Lopez: Or the best thing for the patient.

Tim Pickett: Right. It’s just the best thing for getting flower into the pharmacies right now.

Carlos Lopez: Right.

Tim Pickett: And to your point, Carlos, the idea of more growers isn’t necessarily that we will have less profits. I think the industry looks at it that way. They think growers they want to protect their investment and they don’t want any more growers, they just want to grow their own. And on the one hand, you want them to build out their whole facilities and be in full production before you make that decision. On the other hand-

Carlos Lopez: But then they’re going to have so much of a head start on the other guys that are just trying to build up as they are now, too. So why not give everyone a shot all at the same time, and as things progress?

Tim Pickett: And you would think that if these guys are growing and there’s 25,000 patients, as we approach 75,000, Utah will-

Carlos Lopez: Oh wow, is that right now?

Tim Pickett: No. But I’m just saying, in the future we have 25,000 legal patients right now.

Carlos Lopez: Wow, even that’s remarkable. Wasn’t it only like a third of that, or a fourth of that, what they projected?

Tim Pickett: Yeah. And there’s differing-

Chris Holifield: Don’t ask Rich that.

Tim Pickett: Don’t ask Rich that, because he’ll be like, “Well, we didn’t maybe-

Carlos Lopez: Maybe half?

Tim Pickett: Or whatever, but I’ve heard 6,000. They projected 6,000 for the first little while-

Carlos Lopez: Oh gosh, that’s ridiculous.

Tim Pickett: And 16,000 the first year, and we’re 10,000 more than that. We’ve really… I think we’ve done well. And the Department of Health likes that there’s a lot of patients and I think that’s important for the whole program, that there’s a lot of patients.

Carlos Lopez: It’s growing.

Chris Holifield: But if you can’t supply them, what good is it?

Carlos Lopez: True.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, so as we approach, they’re doing 500 cards a week at the state.

Carlos Lopez: Wow.

Tim Pickett: So they’re increasing by a couple of 1,000 a month. If you extrapolate that out, if we’re short on supply now, we may continue to be short on supply.

Carlos Lopez: Especially when that number that just gets bigger. As we only have these eight to work with, I see where you’re going with this. It doesn’t look good. It’s almost like what I’m thinking up here.

Tim Pickett: That’s the argument I’m making-

Carlos Lopez: At least for patients and availability of the product.

Tim Pickett: I don’t know that that’s the truth, I’m just bringing that up. It does seem like if you’re short now, and granted these guys aren’t up and totally up and running fully.

Carlos Lopez: Fully.

Tim Pickett: But we’re 25,000 patients now, and we’re growing quickly.

Chris Holifield: And where are we going to be in 2022?

Carlos Lopez: And it’s only getting quicker because of the system.

Tim Pickett: Right. And the system is getting better and better.

Carlos Lopez: More efficient.

Tim Pickett: And as more and more people realize it’s a legitimate medicine, that will only increase the size of the system faster.

Chris Holifield: People are still finding out it’s even legal here in Utah.

Carlos Lopez: That’s the weird part.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, come in every day. Every day to our clinic. Every single day. They’re like, “I just found out this was legal last week.” And you’re like, “Where have you been? I was waiting for this day 10 years ago. You know what I mean? I’ve been counting these days.”

Carlos Lopez: That’s so funny. You guys are ahead of the curve, honestly.

Chris Holifield: Yeah.

Carlos Lopez: You are, you are ahead of me. On my card, I’m patient 30,000 plus later. Where the heck was… I should have been 300 or less. I should have been in the at no, that now.

Tim Pickett: In the beginning. No. you should have known.

Chris Holifield: That was a pretty cool day, I was actually at the Dragonfly opening. Dude, that first day-

Carlos Lopez: Oh with Mario, Mariojuana.

Chris Holifield: I didn’t go in.

Carlos Lopez: Oh, he’s episode two, I’ve heard.

Chris Holifield: I didn’t go into the dispensary, I was just there when they did the ribbon cutting. It was such, I mean goosebumps man, just because I was like, “Wow, we have this. This is pretty neat.”

Tim Pickett: It was intense.

Carlos Lopez: It was surreal.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, they’re going to do a big 4/20-

Carlos Lopez: Oh, I just can’t imagine they did the one year anniversary, which was huge. I just can’t imagine what they’ve got in store.

Tim Pickett: They’re going to put up a big event. Big announcements coming out of there.

Carlos Lopez: That will be exciting.

Tim Pickett: April 20.

Chris Holifield: So this is a question that I ask quite a few patients that come on here, Carlos, is what would you tell somebody, I would imagine people are listening that are still on the fence about trying medical cannabis, medical marijuana. Would you give them any advice or suggestions or words of assurance to put their mind at ease? Like hey, I don’t know…

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, definitely. I would say, “don’t be afraid.” It’s a natural, alternative medicine, with its endocannabinoid system that I’ve been learning about and our bodies that naturally have a cannabinoid system, we’re just a perfect match. We’re made for each other in a sense. And I don’t want to get all philosophical or into that, it’s just like it’s a so much better alternative to take that leap. For me, I waited a year and I went through pain, and I went through suffering and I went through things that I shouldn’t have, longer than I shouldn’t have, should I been lack of knowledge or education about this plant. It would have avoided all that suffering, all that time that I spent bedridden, and unmotivated and away from my family.

Chris Holifield: Yeah, “Give me my life back. I want my life back.” I understand.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, I don’t want to make it seem like it’s the unicorn of all things, because for some people it doesn’t work, either.

Chris Holifield: Yeah.

Carlos Lopez: For the vast majority of us, it works. And the proof is in the pudding. Numbers don’t lie.

Tim Pickett: People should take advantage of the education-

Carlos Lopez: That’s the biggest gap.

Tim Pickett: … you can find online.

Carlos Lopez: Or disconnect.

Tim Pickett: Information that you can find now online and with friends and with things like this podcast and take advantage of what you didn’t have in 2005, and what we now-

Carlos Lopez: At our disposal, like technology.

Tim Pickett: …are building, right? This intro into the legitimacy of something that may help you.

Carlos Lopez: Oh, I think it will. I mean this is not just for myself I can personally speak, but I’ve seen this help from family members, from my grandma, from my aunt, from my sister. I’ve seen this.

Chris Holifield: So it’s helped out family members, too.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, absolutely. It’s not just me. I think this is better than reaching for that medicine cabinet and grabbing the aspirin and grabbing the Ibuprofen and grabbing the pain pill, or grabbing the… You know what I mean? Whatever it is that’s a pharmaceutical. And I’m not saying all pharmaceuticals are bad, because they have their purpose in their own way. But this plant, cannabis, is just a life saver in my eyes. It’s drastically changed my life for the better, that I don’t know, I can’t be grateful enough. I’d be dead if it wasn’t for cannabis.

Chris Holifield: Dude, I’m glad we got you on the show. I’m glad. Thank you for coming and recording with us.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah.

Tim Pickett: It’s definitely our pleasure.

Carlos Lopez: No, you’re welcome man. I appreciate you guys. I learned a lot from your podcast and like you were saying, Utah, I’m probably saying it wrong, but the utahmarijuana.org, that’s awesome. Very knowledgeable, educational and it really gives me something to look forward to, every week. I’m always stoked to tune in, “Hey, what’s Tim and Blake doing?”

Tim Pickett: Yeah, what’s the-

Carlos Lopez: What are we going to learn today?

Tim Pickett: What are we going to listen to on the podcast?

Carlos Lopez: What’s going to be on Chris’ podcast this time? Who’s going to be the guest? Is it the hemp or is it the pharmacy guy or the High Times magazine CEO lady, or Mario back here, working, doing his thing? It’s just coming from so many different parts of the world and dynamics, it’s been exciting for me to be a part of. That’s what I like.

Carlos Lopez: We tear each other down so much, we need to lift each other up more often. And I think being in the cannabis community is part of that. Lifting one another up, not being in the negative and just focusing on the bad. But at the same time, you don’t want to be ignorant. We want to try to make change for the better.

Carlos Lopez: So that’s why I was getting on the whole limited cultivator thing.

Tim Pickett: Right.

Carlos Lopez: Because I wish that was double.

Chris Holifield: Yeah, it will get there. Rich was even saying, “Let’s see what happens. Get all these up and going, everything up and going, all the shops up and going, all the growers up and going.” But I’m afraid it will be like the I-15 construction. It’s not like they didn’t attack it soon enough, so it was just… We grew too fast, there was all these construction zones. So why not just make enough dispensaries or pharmacies open now, for the projected growth is what I see.

Tim Pickett: Yeah.

Chris Holifield: Anyway.

Carlos Lopez: No, I think you’re right. Us Utahns-

Chris Holifield: We like to wait.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, in general, I know we’re a conservative state. Obviously, we get that rap all the time. Salt Lake City, I think is going to show that we are willing to change for the better and wanting this hip medicine that’s just going to make us feel better and heal. That’s going to ripple throughout the state, but it seems like everything’s so focused in on us, the county and… Everyone deserves to feel good. No one should be put in that position to have to choose, “Do I need to take this pain pill? Or, do I need to be dying for the next hours?”

Tim Pickett: Right.

Carlos Lopez: With cannabis, you don’t have to worry about that. I’ve been able to take such a variety of… I’m not sure, obviously I don’t know if you’ve seen the Hygge, but they have those FSO pills. Those are freaking awesome. Those help my insomnia better than anything.

Chris Holifield: The RSO pills?

Carlos Lopez: No, no. The green ones, the extra strength.

Chris Holifield: The Dose?

Carlos Lopez: The Dose.

Chris Holifield: Yeah, Dose, okay.

Carlos Lopez: Those will dose you, for sure.

Chris Holifield: I should try those, yeah.

Carlos Lopez: The extra strength, those, because like I’ve said, I’ve done trial and error. Those were great. The strawberry orange ones is the next best go-to for me. The 500 milligram ones, the 50 milligram each per gummy, those ones also, those help my migraines and my insomnia. Those will help me go right out and sleep through the night. That’s the key. I just wasn’t able to sleep all the times through the night. Wake up, toss and turning, hours, maybe sleep an hour, wake up in an hour kind of thing. But those will actually let me rest all the way like a normal 6-8, sometimes longer if I’m really feeling woozy and I want to live it up, go all wild.

Chris Holifield: Living on the edge. Get a couple of extra hours of sleep.

Carlos Lopez: But between… and it’s like you said, discreet, low key, medicating. I don’t have to smell like flower if I need to be somewhere I… We still live in a state that-

Tim Pickett: Professional.

Carlos Lopez: Right, right. And there’s a stigma, unfortunately, with this plant still. It’s just the way it is. And hopefully in time, I think that will change, but you don’t want to be walking around, sometimes when you’re around corporate execs smell like flower, like I’ll tell you that, like cannabis flower. But that’s where I do have… I’m able to take those at the full spectrum, extra dose cannabis capsules. Or I have recently experimented with the RSO ones.

Carlos Lopez: As a matter of fact-

Chris Holifield: The RSO capsules. I saw those, I was wondering how those work?

Carlos Lopez: Because I was supposed to take my dose, but yeah these. I don’t know if it’s okay or not.

Chris Holifield: Yeah.

Carlos Lopez: But yeah, it’s these ones. You know which ones are good, too? I don’t know if you want to check them out?

Chris Holifield: I haven’t had… I’ve seen pictures. I haven’t seen the actual-

Tim Pickett: No, I haven’t seen the bottle itself.

Carlos Lopez: They honestly, the green ones are bitter, I’ll be honest. They’re more effective. These ones are little bit more of a light punch for me, but that’s good, because sometimes I don’t always need that heavy hitting one that’s going to put me out for the night. I don’t need that. Want one that’s going to be a little more mild but still takes what I need away, that pain, let me function.

Carlos Lopez: Oh sorry.

Tim Pickett: Oh, you’re good. You’re good.

Carlos Lopez: But just being able to function and think straight. I love those capsules. The gummies like you said. I’ve done a lot of trial and error there. I’m not a fan of the 100 milligram Tryke ones. I tried them. I tried all 10, there was nothing happened.

Chris Holifield: All 10 at one time?

Carlos Lopez: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chris Holifield: It didn’t do anything for you?

Carlos Lopez: Nothing at all. I tried the Tryke it was the apple Indica THC ones. So it was like, “I’m not getting this again.” Hopefully they come out with another more potent one.

Chris Holifield: That’s what I’m excited for is as 2021 and going into 2022, is to see the products that are coming out.

Carlos Lopez: Oh yeah, even a year ago, you’ve had a patient going back a year.

Tim Pickett: Yeah.

Carlos Lopez: I’m sure the whole menu is like night and day going back this time of year.

Tim Pickett: Oh, yeah. I remember going into Dragonfly and there were four options. And then there were three, because then you could buy tincture. And that was pretty much all you could buy.

Carlos Lopez: Actually I was going to cover that with you because tinctures is one thing I’ve tried that at least for what I deal with, specifically, it’s the perfect dosing. Like you said, you can precision dosing, but I don’t get that pain from my bud that I need, because I need that stronger-

Tim Pickett: Stronger yes. So for somebody like you, you need 1000 milligrams of THC in one vial. And now, you’re buying 250 milligrams THC in one vial. It’s just a matter of time until that product comes-

Carlos Lopez: And I’m sure.

Tim Pickett: Really what you need is a nano emulsified THC oil that has 1,000 milligrams in that one 30 ml bottle. That’s going to absorb faster, it’s going to be more potent and it’s going to be affordable. Something like that would be affordable for somebody with a relatively high tolerance.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, at that point, but it’s just where with it’s at now, it doesn’t seem that it, with the tinctures and the prices and where the dose is, it’s just… like I said, I just don’t get that. But like you said, in due time.

Tim Pickett: Yeah. This is a real balance for the marketplace, because most users are going to be on the low end of tolerance, where five or 10 milligrams of THC is plenty. And for somebody who needs 50, 60, 70 milligrams at a dose, the cost per milligram of THC comes into play.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, so you’re not on the same playing field, really.

Tim Pickett: So really, let’s say 80% of the patients in Utah need that low, low dose. So most of the products-

Carlos Lopez: It’s going to be tailored towards them.

Tim Pickett: Yeah.

Carlos Lopez: That makes sense.

Tim Pickett: All the products you see are more tailored toward that intro medical user. And that’s why your concentrates need to come. They’re for people who have a higher tolerance and people who have more serious conditions, too. They’re necessary, there’s just fewer patients in that space.

Carlos Lopez: I appreciate you explaining it like that, because that does help put it in perspective, for me. That paints the picture for me. I’m excited as we go, fast forward the clock, five years down the road, to see… because we’re big on pharmaceuticals in general, Utah. We’re known for pain pills and opioids.

Carlos Lopez: No, it’s not a good thing.

Tim Pickett: No, we’re getting on the bandwagon though with alternative medicine.

Carlos Lopez: Right.

Tim Pickett: We’re one of the biggest states for essential oils, too. So you could see that the state could get onboard. The state could be-

Chris Holifield: I’m actually surprised how many people are onboard though. I saw on Facebook about a week ago, I’m this Utah County Facebook group, and they were complaining about the Springville dispensary opening up. There was a couple of people but then all these people saying how great it was. I was like, “This is great for Utah. A couple of moms getting all, ‘Oh, this is going to bring down our home value.'”

Chris Holifield: That’s what they were concerned about, bringing down their home value.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, the community.

Chris Holifield: Yeah, they’re like, “Oh is this dispensary gonna bring down -”

Carlos Lopez: Going to ruin our kids.

Chris Holifield: And blah, blah, blah. But I was actually surprised on how many… There’s a lot of people in this state that are actually onboard.

Tim Pickett: And willing to be vocal.

Chris Holifield: With cannabis, because of the creams and stuff like that. I think it’s because the way we’ve approached it, with vape only, no flame. So we’ve taken away all that trashy cannabis look, right?

Tim Pickett: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chris Holifield: Because that’s how most people look at the joint, and see that little guy.

Carlos Lopez: That’s the stigma is the bong, deal with the dreads, the reggae.

Chris Holifield: There’s nothing wrong with that. I love all that, too. But that’s not all there is to the medicine.

Carlos Lopez: No, not at all.

Tim Pickett: Like I was saying earlier. When you’re introducing this to a population that is mostly conservative, if you can do it in the right way, then you can get buy in and we can create a better program in the end, but we’re going to have to live with the bumps.

Carlos Lopez: That’s just life, right. You’ve got to take the good with the bad. And that’s where I’m trying to stay optimistic. Just hang in there. We never thought we’d even be 35th or whatever it was medical. So you know what, God bless me. Let’s just keep on riding. We’ve got to just do it. Take the nitty gritty with it.

Tim Pickett: Oh, go ahead.

Carlos Lopez: I was just going to say that’s why I was excited about the five years from now to see our case study with… I was excited to see where the opioid drop is and not just the drop but the deaths, there’s people dying out here now, because of this thing.

Tim Pickett: Hundreds still.

Carlos Lopez: It’s not a joke. It’s like being more than traffic accidents, almost.

Tim Pickett: I don’t know the comparison, but I think there were 463 opioid deaths in 2018.

Carlos Lopez: Oh, God.

Tim Pickett: Was the latest number.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, that’s awful.

Tim Pickett: That’s a lot.

Carlos Lopez: It’s one too many.

Chris Holifield: Can listeners, how can they connect with you? What’s your Instagram again?

Carlos Lopez: Oh yeah, it’s just my name. So @C_a_r_l_o_s_Lopez.

Chris Holifield: Any spaces or anything?

Carlos Lopez: I do have. I have underscore. So it’s a little complicated. It’s C_A_R_L_O_S and then Lopez, L-O-P-E-Z. I know that’s-

Chris Holifield: Is Lopez underscored?

Carlos Lopez: No, it’s one solid. L-O-P-E-Z.

Chris Holifield: Okay.

Carlos Lopez: So just Carlos is underscored.

Tim Pickett: So if you’re looking for Carlos, you can go to utahmarijuana.org Instagram and just look to the comments, you’ll find him.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah, usually-

Tim Pickett: That’s probably the easiest way to find him.

Chris Holifield: No, but I love it. I love how active you are on there, man.

Carlos Lopez: I appreciate that.

Tim Pickett: It’s important for us to keep people engaged. And we really appreciate it. We really do.

Carlos Lopez: Well, thank you guys. That means a lot.

Chris Holifield: You bet.

Carlos Lopez: Because I love you guys.

Chris Holifield: Thanks, man.

Carlos Lopez: Watching your show, this is a beauty on cannabis. I never would have reached these relationships of, even being able to sit here and do this. I’m just, that’s what I’m saying, I’m very grateful for this medicine and our program.

Chris Holifield: We’re grateful, too.

Carlos Lopez: And you guys, like the platform. This is amazing. You make it seem like you said, it’s legitimized and it’s respectable, you guys are professional about what you do and the way you go about it and the way you educate patients and keep us knowledged. And in the know of the laws. I love it. I can’t get enough of it. I just want to learn more. I appreciate you guys. Like it really means a lot to me. Thank you.

Chris Holifield: Perfect place to end the show, I think.

Tim Pickett: Absolutely.

Chris Holifield: Thank you again, for coming and recording with us. I can’t urge people enough to go follow you on Instagram, connect with you, send you a message. Send Carlos a message, say, “Hey, I heard you on I Am Salt Lake.” Not I Am Salt Lake, that’s my other…. Say, “I heard you on Utah In The Weeds.” That’s my other podcast.

Carlos Lopez: Yeah.

Chris Holifield: Listen to that podcast, too.

Tim Pickett: You’ve been doing that one a long time. Eight and a half years.

Chris Holifield: Something like that.

Carlos Lopez: I need to get on that one more. I’ll be honest with you. I haven’t as much.

Chris Holifield: That’s how I met Tim.

Tim Pickett: Yeah, when you’re in to the cannabis scene, you’ve got a cannabis podcast here. When you’re into the Salt Lake scene, the Utah scene, you’ve got I Am Salt Lake. We’ve got it all covered here. We’re local, Chris is local.

Carlos Lopez: I love it.

Chris Holifield: Anything else you want to add, Tim?

Tim Pickett: No. This has been fun, thanks Carlos. I appreciate you coming on.

Chris Holifield: Go to utahmarijuana.org/podcast is where you listen to all the previous podcasts, we should be in all the podcast apps. If we’re not in a podcast app that you use, reach out to Tim or myself and I will try my hardest to get us in there. Leave us a review in iTunes if you have it. I’m trying to think what else there is to say, any other…? Utahmarijuana.org is the hub.

Tim Pickett: That’s the hub and really it has the episodes as early as you can find them anywhere, right?

Chris Holifield: Yeah.

Tim Pickett: So all right guys, stay safe out there.

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