Chris’s experience on Facebook [1:08]
How Chris believes he got the virus [2:51]
How cannabis helped Chris while he was sick [09:56]
COVID symptoms for Chris’s kids [14:23]
What doctors told Chris about leaving quarantine [15:01]
Chris and Tim’s thoughts on the need for cannabis delivery in Utah [22:04]
Tim’s thoughts on medical cannabis letters [26:32]
After being diagnosed with COVID-19, Chris decided to share his journey on Facebook and Instagram. He quickly began to receive messages from other Facebook users, claiming that he was lying or that his symptoms were just a “bad cold.”
Chris has three stepchildren who were in Texas during the summer. He believes that the virus was brought into the home when his stepchildren came back home after their summer in Texas.
His symptoms began as fever and chills. He was scheduled for a doctor’s visit, but because he was not feeling well he decided to reschedule his appointment. When he called to reschedule, the doctor’s office suggested that get a COVID test. Chris received the diagnosis 24 hours later.
After his diagnosis, the COVID-19 virus began to hit him hard, especially in his lungs. He was experiencing shortness of breath. His wife was able to get him oxygen tanks to help him breathe. His whole body ached and he was experiencing sweats at night, so much so that he would have to change his shirt often because it would be drenched in sweat.
Chris had a nurse call him every morning to check on him. He was told that if his lips start turning blue, to call an ambulance.
Chris says that what he was most worried about was that he did not know which direction the virus would take. His young children also became sick. Although Chris and his wife assumed that they contracted the virus, they did not want them to go through the painful testing process to get an official diagnosis.
For Chris, he found cannabis helped with reducing the anxiety he was having about the virus. Also, using cannabis tinctures helped him to sleep better and to open up his airways.
Chris experienced extreme exhaustion while he was sick. It was difficult for him to just walk up the stairs from his basement. Cannabis also helped ease his aches and exhaustion.
One of Chris’s kids had congestion. His other kid had a sore throat and a fever.
Chris was told by doctors that 8-10 days after initially showing symptoms he would no longer be contagious. He was also told that he would be immune to the virus after 90 days.
Chris’ COVID experience has highlighted the need for cannabis delivery in Utah. For cannabis patients who are required to quarantine, without a delivery option there is no way for them to get access to their medicine.
WholesomeCo dispensary will be offering home delivery. Curaleaf will also be offering home delivery.
The obstacle to home delivery is payment options. Most dispensaries run on cash. However, WholesomeCo has implemented a system called Hypur, which provides electronic payment options.
Tim is seeing an increasing amount of letters being issued to patients. Unfortunately, these letters expire at the end of the year and will have to be converted to cards. This potentially will leave thousands of patients without access to cannabis. Learn more about how to convert your letter to a card here.
The problem, as Tim sees it, is a lack of education with Qualified Medical Providers (QMP). Specifically, the EVS system is a complicated system and QMPs are unfamiliar with how to use it properly to get their patient’s cards.
The team at UtahMarijuana.org will be creating educational events for QMPs to help them use the EVS system and get their patients set up with cards. Follow UtahMarijuana.org on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to learn more about these events.
I’m going to my first Utah dispensary today. A dispensary in Utah, I can’t believe it. I guess I should say pharmacy — that’s what I keep hearing from those in the biz. That’ll be a hard one to shake. Anyway, yesterday I went and got my recommendation letter from Utah Therapeutic Health Center. It was like that scene in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory walking out of their office with that letter in hand. It really felt like I had a golden ticket. No longer a criminal, baby! I’m still on a bit of a high as I drive to the pharmacy today. Because this is my first visit to a Medical Cannabis dispensary, I have to meet with a pharmacist before I can buy anything. This seems like a waste of time to me — I’m not a newbie, but hey, I can buy cannabis from a dispensary in Utah? I’m so elated it’s legal that I don’t care much about the hoops I have to jump through.
I walk in, and it’s nothing like I’d expect. It’s super modern and clean looking. I’ve certainly been to my fair share of shady dispensaries in other states. In Utah, they’re not like that. This place looks like Apple and Starbucks joined forces and sold cannabis. I check in and take a seat on a chair in the lobby. To take my mind off my nerves, I admire the tree to my left and wonder how they keep it so green, thinking back to the half-dead, browning leaves on everything in my own home. After a few minutes, I hear my name called by a woman in a white coat. She greets me warmly and introduces herself as my Medical Cannabis pharmacist. I take a deep breath. Here we go.
She leads me to a desk and I sit across from her. She asks me my name and birthdate and starts typing on her computer. When she frowns slightly, my fight-or-flight kicks in, thinking I must be about to be kicked out. Before I can bolt, she asks me if I have a card or a letter. I hand her my letter and she smiles. “You have a great QMP.” I breathe a sigh of relief and agree wholeheartedly. She then tells me that she’ll have to start from scratch since she can’t see my QMP’s notes in the system until I have my card. Of course, I worried for nothing. I’m still getting used to this legal cannabis thing, can you tell?
When she asks me if I have ever used cannabis before, my palms get a little sweaty. I’ve used cannabis daily to treat my colitis and anxiety for years, but every time I’ve
told a doctor that, I’ve been chastised. Since this is the whole point of the dispensary consultation, I swallow my fear and say, “Yes, every day for more than six years,” and quickly try to read her face. She seems completely unfazed and asks me how often, what form, etc. She’s clearly heard it all before. It’s pretty freeing to talk openly about this. She mentions that anxiety is not a qualifying condition but that she’ll keep it in mind when we create a treatment plan for my colitis.
I tell her about the one medication I am still taking for my colitis and all the nasty side effects that come with it. She brings up the possibility of tapering off of that and moving completely to cannabis. That’s always been a pipedream of mine, but I’m not always in a place I can smoke a bowl, so I’m tied to the ease of a pill. My pharmacist tells me about cannabis capsules they sell in this location and I’m intrigued. Anything to get off this brutal pharmaceutical that’s eating away at my insides.
While we finish up, my Medical Cannabis pharmacist asks me if I have any questions about the laws in Utah. I work in a public school, so I ask her if it’s okay for me to bring my medicine 
with me to school. She tells me that Utah law prohibits any Medical Cannabis use on or within 100 feet of a school campus. Geez, glad I asked! It makes sense, I guess. I make a mental note to draw up a schedule to medicate so that I won’t have to bring my cannabis to school with me.
My pharmacist starts to tell me about cannabinoids and terpenes, and my brain starts to hurt. She must have been able to tell because she quickly goes on to say that terpenes are what I taste and smell and that cannabinoids are the chemicals in the cannabis plant that make it so awesome.
She then goes on to tell me that smoking is not allowed. What?! Then why even sell flower?! She pulls out something called a dry herb vaporizer, this little metal bar that heats flower into vapor. I’m skeptical, but she assures me that this is the safest way to inhale flower. Apparently, I’ve been burning off some of the good therapeutic stuff with my lighter! I figure it’s worth a shot and do some mental math — I decide to pick up cannabis capsules next time and trade it out for a vape. I keep my eye on the one in my favorite color as my pharmacist goes over my treatment plan.
We decide that since I already know flower helps my condition, we’ll stick with that. My Medical Cannabis pharmacist gives me a few pamphlets and documents that go over the medical use of cannabis and more about the dry herb vaporizer I’m going to buy. She asks me if I know what happens if I take too much THC. I laugh and
tell her yes, thinking back to a time in my early smoking days. Back then, I just waited it out, but my pharmacist tells me to try adding some CBD to the mix. I make another mental note to find the CBD vape I lost in my car a few days ago.
I thank my pharmacist for her time, and she tells me how I can reach her if I have any problems. Very nice touch! My QMP said the same thing. It makes me feel good knowing that I have all of these people I can call if something doesn’t feel right. I feel supported entirely by my little team of Medical Cannabis professionals.
Finally, I head up to the counter. I can’t believe I’m actually about to buy cannabis legally in Utah. At a dispensary, no less! I thought we’d be the last state to legalize this. I see smiling faces at the registers and I pick the budtender closest to me. They’re all so friendly and helpful right away. I don’t know why I was ever nervous about this.
I buy a 3.5 oz jar of Sundae Driver and a 3.5 oz jar of Karat Cake. I have a sweet tooth, and these both sounded delicious. I’m excited to see what they taste like in my new vaporizer. My budtender recommends I try popcorn buds: smaller buds for a fraction of the price. It’s all going in my grinder anyway, why not save some money? I’m grateful and a little surprised at the tip — I expected to be upsold at dispensaries, but these guys seemed to be looking out for me.
As my budtender tells me the cost of my cannabis, I freeze. Oh no. I forgot dispensaries only take cash! I’m going to have to come back, how embarrassing. As I explain my dilemma, they tell me about a digital way to pay called Hypur. They explain that it’s like Venmo for cannabis purchases, and that’s all the justification I need. I hate carrying cash anyway. After creating my account, I pay and am back out in my car within a few minutes.
It’s crazy, I couldn’t believe how easy this all was. I have to admit, having been to a dispensary before, I was initially a little irritated I had to meet with a pharmacist. But I’m so glad I did! I feel very informed and empowered after speaking with her. I’m armed and ready to take control of my own health for the first time in years. It feels so good, I tear up a bit on the freeway on my way home. I’ll definitely be back here soon.
Are you ready to make a change? Give us a call at 801.851.5554 or schedule online today.
How Vanessa deals with frustrated patients [03:02]
More about Vanessa’s role as a Wellness Associate [05:11]
The product selection at Dragonfly Wellness [07:04]
Dragonfly’s new payment system [10:07]
Dragonfly’s drive-thru sales [13:28]
How Vanessa helps letter holders get their Medical Cannabis card [15:11]
Patients dealing with law enforcement [20:53]
Spending habits at Dragonfly Wellness [21:41]
Vanessa’s thoughts on adult-use [23:29]
More on Vanessa’s background [28:15]
Vanessa’s future in the cannabis industry [30:21]
Vanessa is a Wellness Associate at Dragonfly Wellness. She has been in this role since February 2020 and was there for the grand opening of Dragonfly Wellness.
Vanessa has a background in customer service, so she has experience dealing with frustrated customers. She also understands that even though patients may be frustrated, they will be “leaving with a bag of sunshine.”
Vanessa considers her work at Dragonfly Wellness more than a job. She has firsthand experience with Medical Cannabis improving her own issues with joint inflammation and sensitivities and has found it to be more helpful compared to other pharmaceuticals. She loves that she is now able to help others on their own journey.
In Utah, Wellness Associates are not to provide recommendations. However, as a patient herself, she can share from firsthand experience how the medicine works for her. For example, she can say that an indica strain helps keep her alert, relaxed, creative, and in a good mood. Or, she can refer a patient to another co-worker who may have an experience different from hers. However, legally she cannot recommend a product to treat a patient’s condition.
Although there are struggles with maintaining inventory, Vanessa has seen more consistency in the past month. The team at Dragonfly Wellness is for the ability to be a vertically integrated company, where they can grow their own product. This has allowed them to supply other pharmacies in the area with much-needed products.
The system is called Hypur and it provides an ACH transfer for pharmacies across the country.
When you enter the pharmacy, you will log in on your phone with a secure access code. Once the system has authenticated your phone and verified your location, your customer info is sent to Dragonfly’s POS system. At checkout, you can easily pay with Hypur. Or, you can split a payment between Hypur and cash.
This information can also be used for online ordering, which will make the online checkout process easier.
Dragonfly Wellness has not seen significant sales from their drive-thru option. The majority of sales are still from walk-ins.
When Vanessa sees patients who have medical letters, she reminds them that their letter is only valid through the end of the year. She will encourage them to talk to their medical provider about getting their letter switched to a card (check out this article for more info).
Vanessa has heard stories from patients about getting stopped by law enforcement and having their medicine confiscated, despite having all the necessary documentation with them. Vanessa believes that the solution is more education to remove the stigma from Medical Cannabis.
Vanessa believes that spending habits vary by person. But, typically she sees patients spending at least a couple hundred dollars a month. For patients looking for more variety, their costs can be higher than someone who buys similar products each visit.
Whether it’s for a severe life-changing condition, depression, anxiety, or sleep, because of the many benefits cannabis has, Vanessa believes that it should be available to everyone.
Her personal experience with cannabis involved in treating psoriatic arthritis. Instead of getting injections with bad side effects, she used cannabis to control her condition.
Vanessa always wanted to be involved in the cannabis industry. She started her career in customer service, which provided the insurance and benefits she needed to treat her medical conditions.
After Medical Cannabis became legal in Utah, she began to talk more about the benefits of it to friends and family. This led her to create an Instagram account (@loch.ness.toker) to get more involved in the community.
After her third FMLA leave of absence last year, she decided to leave her customer service position and go all-in with the cannabis industry.
Vanessa will be starting a community program that provides education to help remove the stigma of cannabis use. She will also advocate for adult-use legalization in Utah.
News about a pharmacy opening in Provo [00:37]
What is the Compassionate Use Board [05:07]
More about Jack’s back pain and nausea [07:53]
How Jack’s parents feel about his use of Medical Cannabis [10:53]
UtahMarijuana.org’s partnership with Empathetix [17:36]
Jack’s advice for someone considering cannabis [27:58]
Deseret Wellness is a new Medical Cannabis pharmacy in Provo. For new patients with medical letters, you may register with Deseret Wellness to use their products. For patients with letters and who are already registered at another pharmacy, you’ll need to convert your letter to a card before visiting Deseret Wellness.
Jack is a 19-year-old Medical Cannabis patient. Jack and his family moved to Utah from California when he was 17.
Jack uses Medical Cannabis for back pain and nausea. He was introduced to cannabis in California. While in California, Jack became interested in the medical benefits of cannabis, consuming content, and watching videos of kids who have been helped by cannabis.
Jack was able to get a Medical Cannabis card in California. The process of getting access to Medical Cannabis in California was easier than in Utah. In California, the process is all online. There is no need to get approval from a Qualified Medical Provider (QMP). In Utah, Jack had to see a QMP to get approved for a medical letter. He will still have to get approval from Utah’s Compassionate Use Board for a full Medical Cannabis card.
The Compassionate Use Board is a board of seven physicians. Some of them are advocates of Medical Cannabis and some are not. The board reviews cases of people seeking Medical Cannabis cards who are either (1) under 21 or (2) looking to use cannabis for a non-qualifying condition.
The team at UtahMarijuana.org has been helping patients go through the process of a Compassionate Use Board review. Providers create petitions on their patient’s behalf and provide the board with the necessary medical documentation.
Jack wakes up in the morning with nausea. Jack has also been diagnosed with scoliosis, causing daily back pain.
Jack’s father had a medical card in California. He explained to Jack the benefits of cannabis and that it could be something that helps him. However, Jack’s mother had a difficult time dealing with his use. However, as Jack continues to provide his mother with education about Medical Cannabis, she has begun to see its benefits.
Jack’s parents will have to be more involved in Utah, as patients under 21 must have a parent or guardian purchase Medical Cannabis from a pharmacy.
Empathetix has partnered with UtahMarijuana.org to provide all of their QMPswith education and resources. They will also help Empathetix patients complete their 90-day card renewals through Utah’s EVS system.
Jack primarily uses concentrates when consuming THC. Concentrates are made from a fresh plant that is frozen and pressed. This compression process produces a light oil, which can be vaped. Concentrates typically have higher amounts of THC. There is also less smell when vaping concentrates compared to flower.
Locally, you can find concentrates at WholesomeCo while supplies last
Jack will also use indica flower for pain. If he is looking for mood improvement, he will use sativa flower.
Jack thinks that cannabis is a good alternative to taking opiates, especially because you cannot overdose on it.
Mandi’s thoughts on the lack of cost protections in the cannabis industry [03:07]
Why CBD is classified as a drug by the FDA [06:54]
Why Mandi is looking to transition to focus on hemp [08:20]
How hemp fiber is grown [12:04]
Even though hemp is legal in the U.S., why isn’t there more widespread use? [14:12]
Why Mandi started the Associations of Hemp Associations [21:41]
How to ensure you’re purchasing quality CBD [33:53]
Mandi’s hemp education efforts [38:50]
Tim’s thoughts on the demand in Utah for Medical Marijuana [46:00]
Utah CBD Collective on YouTube
Mandi is the co-founder of Utah CBD collective. Mandi is passionate about the hemp and cannabis space. While spending the last four years at B2B networking and events for lead generation, she became aware of the pain points in the cannabis and CBD industry such as access to banking, payment processing solutions, and advertising options.
Perishable Agricultural Commodities Act (PACA) provides protection in the agricultural industry and acts as an insurance policy for farmers. For example, if you agree to buy 500 bales of hay at $300 a bale, but later come back to the farmer wanting to change the contract because the market price dropped to $90 a bale, the PACA act would protect the farmer from those losses.
However, in the cannabis industry, there are no protections for either side.
CBD is classified as a drug because CBD is used in Epidiolex, which is now FDA approved. This defaults all CBD in the U.S. to be classified as a drug.
Currently, CBD has a strong national representation. However, where Mandi believes that industrial hemp representation is lacking, which is why she is transitioning from Utah CBD Collective to the Association of Hemp Associations.
Mandi sees an opportunity with hemp helping drive economic growth with sustainable uses of building materials, building homes, plastics, fibers, etc. Thus, a goal for the Association of Hemp Associations is to lobby for the hemp industry.
An example of a use for hemp is “HempCrete”, which is a concrete alternative that can burn at 7,000 degrees Fahrenheit under direct flame with no damage. Hemp is also mold-proof, making it a useful component for products such as drywall.
Other benefits of hemp include lower growing costs and a smaller carbon footprint (it requires one-twentieth of the water that cotton does.)
A hemp stock grows tall like bamboo. Thousands of plants can be grown on a single acre. Once grown, it is broken down, processed, and bailed like hay. Hemp can be further processed into fibers, plastics, oils, or construction materials like “HempCrete” or drywall.
While it is inexpensive to grow hemp, the cost to process hemp into usable materials can be higher due to the lack of processing facilities in the U.S., which is why the lobbying efforts of the Association of Hemp Associations are important.
The issue is the lack of manufacturing facilities in the U.S. Farmers can easily grow hemp on their land, but because there is nowhere for them to sell their crops, it does not make sense for them to invest in hemp.
Another issue is the lack of access to banking and advertising. For example, Google and Facebook prohibit advertisers from promoting cannabis-based products on their platforms. Without the ability for companies to sell hemp products at scale, not enough demand can be generated to incentivize farmers to grow hemp.
Mandi realized that cannabis and industrial/manufacturing industry associations and groups were divided by either product, region, or type of processing. An organization that brought together everyone involved with hemp was necessary
The goal of the Association of Hemp Associations is to provide support from the ground up for everything in the hemp industry, including building supplies, infrastructure, economic development, sustainability, and diversity. The Association of Hemp Associations will also focus on grassroots education on traditional broadcast and digital platforms.
Much of the textile and fabric manufacturing is done out of the United States. The low manufacturing costs come with a trade-off of child labor and human trafficking in those countries.
Bringing our supply chains back to the U.S would improve our economy and improve global child labor and human trafficking.
Products should have a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) and lab tests that show the quality of the product.
Mandi has done daily shows on Facebook, YouTube, and Instagram with Utah CBD Collective, interviewing over 100 people. She has begun making the shift to hemp education with the Association of Hemp Associations.
Mandi also posts events on Eventbrite and LinkedIn.
Tim believes that the state will not be able to keep up with the demand for Medical Marijuana. Specifically, he believes that it will take 2-5 years for the state to catch up. Potential solutions could be opening up control to the cities or federal decriminalization.
Who are Richard and Chris? [00:57]
Richard’s thoughts on Utah’s medical classification of cannabis vs recreational [05:12]
The biggest challenge Chris and Richard have faced since opening WholesomeCo [5:51]
How WholesomeCo’s dispensary is designed [11:04]
More about WholesomeCo’s products and the grow operation [13:10]
Richard’s thoughts on beverages as a consumption option [15:53]
WholesomeCo’s vision for technology and user experience [21:29]
How patients can prepare for their visit to WholesomeCo [23:06]
How UtahMarijuana.org will help patients get from letters to cards [30:08]
Richard’s thoughts on the Utah cannabis community [42:49]
WholesomeCo’s diverse product line [46:17]
Richard Maloney and Chris Jeffery run WholesomeCo, a Medical Cannabis dispensary in Bountiful. Chris has a background in cannabis and served as the CEO of Leafly in 2017. Chris met Richard after a move to Seattle.
Chris and Richard are passionate about cannabis education. They believe that no one is an expert in cannabis because there is still so much to learn. They’re constantly testing and trying new ideas with the plant.
Richard likes the medical classification of cannabis. He sees cannabis as a way to improve well being and have a better way of life.
Richard is not against recreational cannabis use. He believes that anyone should safely be able to access this plant if they want to use it and that no one should be in prison for using cannabis.
Much of the difficulty has come with connecting dispensary point-of-sale systems to the state’s seed-to-sale tracking, MJ Freeway. The API integration for this system is not robust and makes it difficult for dispensaries to create an automated online ordering solution.
For example, WholesomeCo would like to have an online ordering platform for patients to be able to easily see a menu at their home, add products to a cart, and come to the store and pick up their product. However, the API system from the state makes it difficult to achieve this.
Chris and Richard do feel that Utah is on the right path and that the Department of Health has a great team behind them with the patient’s interest in mind. They believe that in one year we’ll be in a much better place.
During his time at Leafly, Richard had the chance to travel to a number of dispensaries around the country. This experience showed him how important the user experience is for dispensaries.
Walking into the WholesomeCo, there is a large curved wall and waiting area. The large waiting area is critical because of the lack of distribution of Medical Marijuana in the state.
Once inside the dispensary, you’ll see a cleanspace with a wood toned counter (think a mix of Apple and Starbucks) and a chalkboard that contains a menu of products. All of the products are laid out in the countertop where you can clearly see what is available.Four or five friendly people are behind the counter ready to help patients and answer questions.
WholesomeCo has a retail license and a cultivation license. Patients will start seeing the WholesomeCo products on shelves in about two weeks (at the time this podcast was recorded). They will then begin ramping cultivation efforts over the next four to six months to really expand their cultivation production, not only for the dispensary but also for the wholesale market as well. The team is currently deciding between two locations for their cultivation facility.
Richard would love for WholesomeCo to be the company that brings beverages to the Utah market. He believes that, from a dosing perspective, beverages are one of the best methods for a patient to consume cannabis because dosing is easier to manage. Also, he likes that you would not have to use a vaporizer to consume THC. He thinks the beverage market is going to be huge for cannabis.
The dispensary is focused on upholding a promise to improve the registration and purchase experience for WholesomeCo customers. This involves taking a digital, technology-first approach to building the dispensary. The COVID-19 pandemic has helped create urgency in achieving this mission, but the team has always believed in this direction.
Richard and Chris recommend patients register at WholesomeCo.com before visiting the dispensary. WholesomeCo then has to verify that this is a legitimate letter. This information will allow the team to set everything up so that, when the patient arrives, they get them straight into the shop. They ask that even cardholders register online before arriving to keep their records accurate.
The team at UtahMarijuana.org can work with the state and your Qualified Medical Provider and walk you through the process of getting your Medical Marijuana card. This will be a free service to Medical Marijuana patients. We understand how confusing the system can be and we want to ensure patients do not lose access to the medicine they need at the end of the year.
One of the biggest issues Tim sees is that only a small percentage of Qualified Medical Providers (QMPs) in the state understand the process of getting their patients’ cards. The few that do, including the team at UtahMarijuana.org, have worked to bring QMPs up-to-speed with the process.
The team at UtahMarijuana.org is committed to helping patients and QMPs during this process and, along with 1-to-1 training, will be adding more educational materials to the website to close this training gap for QMPs.
After December 31, 2020, no letters will be issued. When a patient sees their QMP and gets approved, they must register with the state and get their official Medical Cannabis Card before they will be able to buy their medicine. Tim feels like this will push QMPs to learn the process to help their patients.
Compared to some of the other markets that he has worked in, Richard believes that the community in Utah seems very willing to work together. In other states such as California or Oregon or Washington, everyone acts as a competitor. However, in Utah, he has experienced a more collaborative, team effort. Specifically, he credits Dragonfly Wellness for how helpful they have been.
WholesomeCo will be the first medical cannabis pharmacy in Utah to have a hash rosin product. They will have limited quantities (about 100 units available), so sales will be a first come first serve basis.
WholesomeCo will also be the first to carry PLUSH gummies, from Zion Pharmaceuticals, which will have a mix of delta-8 and delta-9 cannabinoids. They’ll also be carrying capsules, a product of Boojum and Tryke.
Think back to science class. Specifically, think about all that you learned about the endocannabinoid system (ECS) and marijuana treatment. Doesn’t take too long, does it? That’s because you probably learned about as much as I did: nothing. And I went to medical school!
Okay, so that’s not completely true. In medical school, they teach about cannabis as a drug of abuse. They also teach that it’s federally classified as a Schedule 1 drug and that “we need more research” on the benefits. It’s clear to me now that what we all learned in school, from way back to grade school in many cases, needs to be discarded. It truly bears no relationship to reality.
In my opinion, “we need more research” is a cop-out. There have been thousands of studies on the plant, its side effects, dosing, compounds, and most importantly, its safety. The fact is, it’s somewhat difficult to conduct research with cannabis. However, I would argue that this isn’t due to its federal classification, but due to the complexity of the research that would need to be conducted.
Effective research on cannabis is similar to doing research on different tomato plants. You’d have to study the effect on different body systems depending on the type of tomato, the way it’s processed, how it’s cooked (or not cooked), and how it’s consumed. Ketchup is useful, tasty, and goes great on hotdogs, but it’s night and day to a fresh tomato picked off the vine. The same is true for cannabis.
Israel, for example, has one of the world’s largest cannabis labs on earth. In their studies, they’ve found that one strain processed into one batch of tincture works to prevent seizures in one individual, while the same brand as a different batch or strain doesn’t. The 113 cannabinoids (CBs) and 400 other compounds within the plant need to line up perfectly, in just the right proportions, to have the same effect.
Most medical providers didn’t learn about the endocannabinoid system in medical school. We only discovered it in the 1980s, around the same time that we discovered cannabinoid receptors. In fact, all humans and complex animals have an endocannabinoid system 
that works to maintain homeostasis. The ECS affects memory, digestion, motor function, immunity, inflammation, appetite, pain, blood pressure, bone growth, and the protection of nerve and brain tissues, just to name a few.
When THC binds to CB-1 receptors in your brain, you begin to feel the psychoactive effects or feel “high.” Because there are very few CB-1 receptors in your brain, an overdose of cannabis won’t cause breathing problems or death, as an overdose of other medications would. CB-2 receptors live in your immune system. Together, the ECS is constantly working behind the scenes to maintain balance in your body.
Now, that’s a lot of scientific jargon that may not make a lot of sense to you. Maybe it does. But if you need it broken down further, check out this Zion Medicinal educational video about the endocannabinoid system.
Western-trained medical providers have been taught that one medicine does one thing and treats one illness or symptom. Do we throw away cannabis as a viable treatment option because we don’t have years and years of research behind it?
Lucky for us, the public has made this decision for us with a resounding “Hell no!” As medical providers, we need to take a step back and see that the way we’ve been taught to treat patients has played a role in them wanting to take matters into their own hands. We’ve been pushing pills and procedures on patients for generations. This has led patients to start experimenting with alternative 
treatments. Through that experimentation, they’ve experienced firsthand that the endocannabinoid system exists. They’ve seen that cannabis can and does work to treat many illnesses and health concerns. They’ve gone around the medical community and taken their health and treatment into their own hands. It’s time for us to get on board.
Most importantly, remember to forget every preconceived notion you have about Medical Cannabis treatment. Find a qualified medical provider (QMP) and follow their recommendations closely to find your just-right dose. Everybody’s endocannabinoid system and genetic makeup is different and requires specific dosing and delivery for a beneficial experience.
So here we are. Welcome. Medical Cannabis is legal in Utah and this is what you should know according to Tim Pickett.
How Dr. Bone and Tim met [0:33]
Comparing Medical Marijuana dosages in Florida and Utah [1:30]
Tim and Dr. Bone’s thoughts on the Utah and Florida Medical Marijuana program [10:39]
Requirements for caregivers [13:53]
Dr. Bone’s thoughts on cannabis treatment for Alzheimer’s and dementia [16:20]
Dispensary limits in Florida and Utah [27:55]
The process for getting a Medical Marijuana card in Florida [31:47]
How the Florida and Utah Medical Marijuana programs handle non-qualified medical conditions [34:44]
Number of Medical Marijuana patients in Florida [41:09]
Dr. Bone’s connection to Utah [44:38]
How to connect with Dr. Bone [48:28]
Dr. Bone and Tim were connected through Shawn Hammond, the grower for Zion Pharmaceuticals (check out our interview with Shawn here.) When Tim began to get involved in the cannabis scene in Utah, Shawn encouraged Tim to reach out to Dr. Bone.
Dr. Bone, based out of West Palm Beach, Florida, is an expert in cannabis and speaks internationally on the subject.
Florida medical providers do not have patient caps. However, patients do have a daily milligram cap on THC. Clinicians can prescribe a certain number of milligrams of CBD and a certain number of milligrams of THC that the patient may purchase for 70 days.
Dr. Bone found that there are Florida patients who order as little as one to two hundred milligrams of THC a day, up to 10,000 milligrams a day.
Utah patients are restricted to 20 grams (or 20,000 milligrams) per month.
Dr. Bone believes that the Florida program provides robust options for patients. However, one of the challenges she has experienced is with seniors.
The Florida Medical Marijuana program requires either a driver’s license or Florida state photo ID. However, older seniors may not have had a driver’s license for years. Also, for seniors who are in severe pain, it can be difficult for them to get to a location where they can obtain a state ID. Utah faces the same challenge, as the EVS system requires a state ID.
One difference between the Utah and Florida Medical Marijuana programs is the amount of flower that can be possessed . Utah allows patients to obtain four ounces of flower per month, versus only two and a half ounces every 35 days in Florida.
Another difference between the two states is how they handle out-of-state Medical Marijuana cards. In Florida, you must meet all residency, ID, and health qualification requirements to obtain a card, even if you have obtained a card in another state. This is especially problematic for seasonal residents, who may not have a permanent residence in the state.
In Utah, out-of-state Medical Marijuana cards cannot be used. However, a temporary card may be issued with an out-of-state license.
In Florida, every caregiver has to register and pay an annual fee to be able to administer Medical Marijuana for their patients. They also have to complete a course and pass a five-question quiz, which can be intimidating to some people.
These hurdles were created in Florida to prevent anyone from claiming they are a caregiver so that they can easily obtain Medical Marijuana.
This caregiver issue is very similar in Utah. In Utah, anyone under 21 who uses Medical Marijuana must have a caregiver. Caregivers are required to pay an additional fee and have a background check.
Dr. Bone works in a memory care unit, a locked unit for patients with all types of dementia, including later-stage dementia. Because the unit is funded with healthcare dollars from Medicare and Medicaid, they are unable to treat patients with THC products. They are able to see some success with CBD for anxiety, hyperactivity, agitation, and combative behavior. However, she also sees success with her private practice patients that are prescribed THC.
Her approach with THC and dementia is to start with a full spectrum or low THC product and assess the results. Then, if necessary, she will increase dosages and CBD/THC ratios until the patient sees results.
There are no dispensary limits in Florida. However, it is very expensive to start a dispensary. This is because dispensaries require “full vertical integration”, which means you have to grow cannabis, harvest it, process it, package it, and bottle it in your retail facilities. Dr. Bone estimates that dispensaries will require an investment of up to $60 million to get started.
In Utah, there are eight grow licenses and 14 dispensary licenses. Unlike Florida, Utah dispensaries are not required to also grow their own product. This allows growers and dispensaries to focus on what they do best.
In Florida, patients must have a face-to-face consultation and physical examination with a medical provider. This requirement was not waived during the COVID-19 pandemic.
There are no specific parameters for what the physical examination consists of. Providers are just required to provide a basic examination and review the patient’s medical history.
If the patient has one of the 12 qualified medical conditions, they can be given a Medical Marijuana card. After approval, it typically takes 14 days for them to receive a card.
The patient’s medical marijuana certification is good for 70 days. Providers can set this to automatically re-certify after 70 days. However, providers in Florida are required to see the patient every 210 days.
In Florida, patients applying for Medical Marijuana use with a non-qualified medical condition requires a letter to the state in which the physician says why the patient would benefit from cannabis, documented with medical literature to support their opinion (called a “similar diagnosis”). For example, anxiety is not an approved diagnosis. A provider would have to say it is “similar” to PTSD, which is an approved diagnosis.
In Utah, applications for Medical Marijuana use with a non-qualified medical condition require approval from the state’s Compassionate Use Board, a board of seven physicians.
As of the recording of this podcast, Dr. Bone believes there are ~400,000 patients in Florida.
Dr. Bone’s child went to an outdoor wilderness therapy program in the Uinta mountains in Utah. Her other connection to the state is as a breast cancer survivor and speaker. Specifically, she spoke on behalf of Myriad Genetics — a company in Utah.
You can learn more about Dr. Bone on her website, drmelaniebone.com. On the site, you can contact Dr. Bone and learn more about her mentoring program for doctors.
Who is Weldon Angelos? [0:56]
Weldon’s trial and sentence [06:41]
Efforts to change Weldon’s prison sentence [8:26]
Weldon’s experience in prison [09:18]
How Weldon was able to have his sentence commuted [10:51]
Weldon’s life after prison [12:24]
Weldon’s efforts to help others in prison [14:03]
Why the Mission Green project is focused on federal prisoners [19:02]
Mission Green’s cannabis brand [21:57]
Adjusting to life after prison [22:45]
More about the documentary [24:29]
Weldon’s thoughts on medical vs. recreational marijuana [29:42]
The Weldon Project’s work to have rap artist Loon released from prison [35:02]
Weldon’s day to day life [36:43]
How Weldon learned the laws around cannabis [37:59]
How you can get involved with the Weldon Project & Mission Green [42:18]
Weldon has a background in music production, working with artists such as Snoop Dogg and Tupac. Weldon also was involved in bringing rap artists on tour to Salt Lake City.
As Weldon became more popular in the area, the Salt Lake City Metro Gang Unit began to take notice and investigated him. It was determined later that law enforcement was concerned with Weldon efforts to promote cannabis and urban culture in Utah. They were worried about “moral corruption.” An arrest of Weldon would also look good on the records of those law enforcement officials and help them get promoted.
A childhood acquaintance of Weldon became an informant for the Metro Gang Unit. Weldon gave the informant $300 worth of cannabis on three different occasions. The prosecutor on his case was able to turn these three transactions into a 20 count federal indictment with a minimum of 105 years in prison if convicted on all counts.
The prosecutor introduced evidence from Weldon’s work in music and clothing to make a case. For example, in the closing argument, the prosecutor used lyrics from an album he produced to describe his character, even though he did not write the lyrics. The prosecutor also used Snoop Dogg’s clothing line, East Side LBC, as evidence of gang affiliation.
Ultimately, Weldon was sentenced to 55 years in prison.
Before sentencing, the judge for Weldon’s trial asked President George W. Bush to commute the sentence. He believed that the mandatory sentencing he was required to impose was cruel, unjust, and irrational. However, this effort was unsuccessful. Thus, the judge was forced to sentence Weldon to 55 years without parole in federal prison.
A young prosecutor named Mike Lee disagreed with the way his colleagues treated Weldon. A few years later, Mike Lee (R-Utah) became a U.S. Senator. He did not forget Weldon, and introduced legislation to fix his sentence.
At 24 years old, Weldon was sent to the United States Penitentiary, Lompoc in California. USP Lompoc is a medium security prison for male inmates. He served his prison sentence alongside violent criminals, murders and “lifers.”
Requests for appeals were denied, so his only hope for getting out of prison was clemency from President Bush. He believed that President Bush would likely not grant him clemency, so he and his team focused their efforts on the next president, Barack Obama.
Weldon and his team were able to build a coalition of celebrities and politicians to help get his sentence commuted, including Snoop Dogg, Alicia Keys, Bonnie Raitt, Mike Epps, and Senators Mike Lee, Rand Paul, and Cory Booker.
Later, the Koch Brothers joined the effort to get Weldon’s sentence commuted, which was a shock to him and his team. The judge who presided over Weldon’s trial also stepped down from a lifetime appointment and became his advocate.
A petition was sent to President Obama that included signatures from over 150 lawmakers, including judges, former federal prosecutors, former U.S. Attorney Janet Reno, and many other former U.S. attorneys.
Finally, on May 31, 2016, Weldon was released from federal prison.
As soon as Weldon was released from prison, he hit the ground running to work on criminal justice reform. He was part of the coalition lobbying for the First Step Act, which was legislation to “improve criminal justice outcomes, as well as to reduce the size of the federal prison population while also creating mechanisms to maintain public safety.” The legislation was signed into law by President Trump in 2018.
Senators Mike Lee and Cory Booker used Weldon’s story on the Senate floor as an example of why we need to change the system. In fact, one of the provisions in the act is named after him.
The First Step Act was a great step towards criminal justice reform, but the act did not apply to purely cannabis cases.
Weldon’s tells the story of Luke Scarmazzo and Ricardo Montes, California dispensary operators who were convicted in federal court under a “kingpin” statute. They were arrested after Luke created a satire video saying “[expletive] the FEDs!”
Medical Marijuana was legalized in California at the time. However, because federal law still classifies cannabis as a Schedule 1 drug, federal officials were still able to arrest and prosecute them.
President Obama did commute the sentence of Ricardo Montes. However, he denied Luke’s request.
Weldon met Luke when they were in prison. When Weldon’s sentence was commuted, Luke asked Weldon not to forget about him.
To help Luke and others like him, Weldon is launching an initiative called Mission Green, uniting the entertainment industry with those in the cannabis industry who can help fund this initiative.
Weldon is working with White House Advisor Jared Kushner, former governor Gary Johnson, NBA Hall of Famer Kevin Garnett, and others to help get people like Luke out of prison who are in the federal system for cannabis offenses.
Unlike the state penitentiary system where there is the option of parole or even expungement as state laws change, in the federal system there is no relief unless the President of the United States commutes your sentence or Congress acts to change federal laws.
Thus, low-level drug offenses or cases in states that have legalized possession of marijuana still have significant minimum mandatory sentences.
Mission Green’s goal is to have more cases like Luke Scarmazzo commuted, putting pressure on Congress to change laws.
Mission Green is launching a cannabis brand called REEForm. The goal of this brand is to give the proceeds from sales to cannabis federal prisoner commissary accounts.
REEForm is in partnership with one of the biggest packaging companies in the country called Kush Supply Co. They are providing packaging at near cost and on credit, which will help REEForm grow nationally.
Weldon’s criminal justice reform work was a good distraction for him after prison. In his final months in prison, he knew he would be released, but did not know the date. When he finally was released, he asked friends and family to keep it a secret to give him a few days to get some sun, buy new clothes, and re-adjust to life.
Eventually, a story ran in the Washington Post that announced his release to the world. This sparked weeks of phone calls from the press and requests for him to speak around the country.
Instead of becoming bitter or returning to music, Weldon decided to use this platform to push for criminal justice reform. He is also working on a documentary and movie deal.
The documentary will be a 90 minute feature film. Weldon is currently in discussions with HBO for the project.
The documentary is produced by NBA Hall of Famer Kevin Garnett and Mark Wahlberg, and will feature Snoop Dogg, TI, President Trump, former U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions, and more.
Weldon believes that everyone should have access to cannabis. Weldon also believes that home grow should also be an option for cannabis users.
He would like to see cannabis deregulated at the federal level and left up to the states to regulate, similar to how alcohol is regulated.
Weldon believes in working in a bi-partisan way to improve legislation. He has worked on both sides of the aisle, including with President Trump, White House Advisor Jared Kushner, and Senators Cory Booker, and Mike Lee.
The Weldon Project is working with the federal system to have the rap artist Loon released from prison.
Update since this podcast was released: Loon was released from prison on July 29.
Weldon spends his days writing legal briefs for people in prison for cannabis, working on his cannabis brand, and networking. He continues to advocate for people in prison, male and female.
While in prison, Weldon spent much of his time studying law. With the help of his sister, he used this knowledge to campaign for his release from prison.
You can go to TheWeldonProject.org to donate or volunteer.
